Planar PX2611W 26"

I can't speak for toastyX but I think he's tweaked the photos to show up the contrast more easily for comparison purposes?

I can't see anything like that from Hudders images.

I do currently own a samsung 32" HDTV that exhibits significant but pretty uniform backlight bleeding, I only notice it when the room is completely dark however, and to avoid eyestrain I generally try to have at least a couple of lights on if i'm staring at a monitor all day.
 
Luthorcrow said:
ToastyX, any chance you could take some pics of both panels displaying a gradient test pattern? I noticed when comparing screens on this site Les Numeriques that the biggest difference in comparison between the cheap and better panels was the gradient comparisons.

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Unfortunately, taking a picture of such a pattern doesn't really reveal anything. The NEC can be calibrated to look any way you want. The Planar has a slight green tinge with the default settings. The camera also adds its own bias, so it's not an accurate representation of what I see.





amikoenig said:
Sorry to say, but some of the images, espcially the 2 "pattern" links that you posted show us (me, at least) nothing... I also downloaded the "faint horizontal lines" blue box, opened it in Photoshop and saw nothing but a blue box... Maybe the details are too subtle for my current 22" ViewSonic monitor? That might as well be..
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The checkerboard pixel pattern images won't show the problem if your monitor doesn't have the problem. The horizontal lines in the blue image probably won't be visible if you're using a CRT since the lines will blend into each other.

amikoenig said:
What's TRULY AMAZING here, is that the Planar is in so many ways similar to the NEC 2690 (as you claim, which makes sense since they both use the same panel) yet suddenly we realize that the super-expensive 2690 IS NOT AS PERFECT as we (me, at least) would expect from a super-power like NEC... Ha!
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What amazes me the most is how different the viewing angles are. I didn't realize it was possible to get rid of the glow independently of the panel. Why don't more manufacturers do this? The glow is the most annoying thing about IPS panels.

amikoenig said:
OK, let's get to the bottom line: Me, as a GRPAPHIC DESIGNER who's sitting in front of the monitor for some 8 hours daily, doing Desktop Publishing (I hate this definition) and some Photoshop work (grayscale and color correction and manipulation), NO games involved ---- what's your verdict for me, ToastyX?
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I think the NEC would be better for that.

amikoenig said:
I understand and accept that I would need to CALIBRATE the monitor immediately when I get it (which system would you suggest that's not over $200?).
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The Eye-One Display 2 is probably the best choice for under $200.



wEvil said:
I can't speak for toastyX but I think he's tweaked the photos to show up the contrast more easily for comparison purposes?
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It is a bit overexposed. I wanted to show the NEC has some bleeding too.

Here is a less exaggerated picture:


The difference is still obvious.
 
UrielDagda said:
Wow that is some backlight bleeding.. I wonder if Hudder would check his in the dark and try to take a pic also.. Seems like backlight bleeding is entirely random between different monitors though. I also heard S-IPS displays have a lot of "twinkling" effect with DVD, either of you test that out on the Planar? I want to know if it does if it looks horrid.
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I don't really know how to answer that. I don't think you'd be disappointed with the video quality on the Planar, but that depends on what you consider horrid.

I feel BeHardware is misleading about the twinkling effect. They blame it on the monitor when the problem is really in the video itself. The twinkling effect is caused by video noise and compression artifacts. The better the monitor, the easier it is to see those problems. Garbage in, garbage out.

CRT monitors don't have the twinkling effect because neighboring pixels blend together, so subtle artifacts blend away.

P-MVA panels have less twinkling effect because they have the worst real-world gray-to-gray response times, so the noise blends together between frames.

Monitors with bad overdrive might increase the twinkling effect, but in that case, trailing (ghosting) would be visible as well.

Also, a monitor calibrated to a lower gamma will reveal more noise in dark areas.

There are so many factors that affect what you see. These are things BeHardware doesn't mention.

UrielDagda said:
And does the Planar come with a DVI-D cable in the box?
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Yes.

UrielDagda said:
That backlight bleeding is a worry though, I just have to wonder if its a Planar problem or just a random thing.
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In my experience, backlight bleeding is very common in monitors with LG IPS panels. Some units are better than others. It's a crapshoot.
 
Well that sounds decent. I guess I would just have to take my chances with backlight bleeding and have Planar replace it if it's too bad for me to stand. I never use my computer in the complete dark anyway. I do like some movies that have fairly dark parts, so that's where I worry about nasty backlight bleeding actually affecting that, but then again, with regular DVD, the artifacts from the source already crush the blacks some.

As for the twinkling effect, I have never seen video on LCD, but have heard about it in various places. I figured it was just the fact that the picture was so clear it was enhancing the artifacts already there. I had a similar experience with CRTs when I went from a slightly blurry, crappy 19" montior to the crystal clear picture of the 24" widescreen FW900. DVDs looked so crappy to me at first because every little detail stood out.. I eventually figured out I needed to sit back a little bit. I am hoping that next year I will be able to build a new PC and switch to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray where all of that will be less of an issue anyway.

So, I just have one last question.. even with it's flaws, do you think the Planar being S-IPS is a better choice than any of the S-PVA monitors? I had been looking at the NEC LCD2470WNX-BK when I saw the Planar topic.. Since I have never had an LCD, would S-IPS trump the S-PVA regardless? Or do you think the Planar is crappy and can be beaten by a PVA panel?
 
My hats off to you ToastyX! That was one of the best and most thorough reports seen here in a long time.
 
Yes a greatly detailed review from someone who has sat with both monitors. I agree with most of what Toasty has posted, but I brought some salt with me.


When you're working, you're never viewing your monitor off-angle. So who would care unless you're putting this in your family room to watch movies or game with friends? It's possible the NEC will deliver better straight on performance, but like I have said (as an artist using this for work), this is not bothering me much.

About the panel centering, mine seems the same. But let's not describe the right side's extra 1mm as "plenty of space". This is a comment that should absolutely not factor into your purchase. I'd have to say, like for a few points in this review, that while measureable, this is not a real world concern. I didn't notice it. And I still don't care.

Backbleeding. I see so much less of that backbleeding. It is more on the right side as you and your photos suggest, but not nearly that bad. I found that the photo I took from my Canon 20D showed something more toward what you posted here, so I adjusted the raw image's exposure downward a bit so it matched more with what I actually saw in backbleed with my eyes --- everyone please note that cameras will not by default nor with tweaking show you what your eyes see. While it's clear the NEC performs better, do not base your decision by those photos - if you are buying this monitor for work purposes especially. BTW, we've no idea how Toasty has calibrated these monitors, and these are also things we're talking about viewing in pitch black rooms.

Horiztonal lines. I see what he's talking about, but faintly. Certainly not from working distance. Absolutely not. 100% not an issue, and this is supposed to be a knock on both monitors. There's nothing wrong with image quality. I'm an artist. I'm picky. I'd see them, and they'd bug me. It's no surprise to me that people are not talking about this.

The pixel pattern tests find weaknesses for both monitors apparently. I dragged them around too with the same results. It's just not a test that in the real world means anything to me at all. They don't even display properly on my CRTs...and designers around the world aren't flipping out. As an artist, I'm just not concerned about pixel patterns. That's not what I work on. If they show a slight change in hue from one corner to the other (or whatever), that's great. But when I am working on my work, it's just not noticeable. This is a test made specifically to show something, and the image/pattern has to to be exactly as it is to show it with definite strength. Your work isn't. Your games aren't. Do not use this as a basis for decision on either monitor.

About all the video stuff, well I just am not buying the Planar for that. It's work as #1 for me, and PC games as #2. Nothing said there would detract from this monitor for my purposes. So think about what you're getting it for.

About colour presets, so the presets are off. Who does this affect? Toasty's labelling them as totally useless, along with a few other comments, just sounds like technical snobbery to me. Because to me as an artist, I sit here and calibrate my own user settings with the Spyder2Pro. It's as accurate as I need it to be, and as accurate as I have seen. And I can't even begin to assume I would be dazzled by the NEC's special software and adjustable internal LUT over what I am getting with the Planar. Finally, are non-artists going to care about ANY of this? Please...

"The OSD is very quirky". This is just a rediculous statement. You can set saturation in a range from -100% to +100%. So after adjusting when you come back toward 0%, you can't set it to 0% exactly. It's like -.08 or +.07. The same for brightness. Is he kidding? This makes absolutely no perceivable difference to the image. Don't fuss over this people. This is something Rain Main wouldn't be able to handle, but doesn't apply to us.

As for other OSD comments...I use TEXT and observed the same thing. So what if the other modes don't float your boat? And I just don't see the benefit for stuff like the sharpness tweak on either monitor. Sorry, I have not been agonizing over any horizontal gradients, just my work.


Not trying to slam Toasty's review too much. It's very detailed, but it's also exaggerated and focuses on the inane as well. I would suggest readers do their best to keep it real. I used to get caught up in specs and facts and comparisons like this. But much of it just isn't significant to me. And I can't justify paying 50% more for a like monitor which shares a lot of the "problems", but gives me a few perks like adjustable LUT, a bit better backlighting, and (much) better off-angle viewing.


To go on a bit about the reason for my choice (other than the higher pixel pitch of the 26" monitors), part of my needs for video game texturing involves having a lot of desktop space. One of the things which factored into my decision on the Planar would be to add more of them if it was a suitable display, and replace my CRTs. At 66% the cost of NEC, this becomes much more feasible for me. Now that I know it's more than suitable, this is what I am doing. What do you want to do with $500 saved?


The bottom line....

This is a perfectly suitable and much more than capable monitor for digital desktop design. Amikoenig, I am doing design, texturing, photography, photoshop, retouching, colour correction --- the whole deal --- for my job, and this Planar is perfect for me.

Those of you in print might want to look at the NEC. but I *still* don't believe that in real-world terms, that it's a $500 difference in performance. Once again, I have to caution people not to get caught up in the nitty gritty specs, complaints & comparisons about factors which just won't apply to you.

Those of you who PC game....geez you really, REALLY don't need the NEC. And those who game with consoles, well I just don't know.
 
Well I ordered the 2611w from buy.com - cheapo shipping so I should get it sometime next week

Hats off to both Hudder and ToastyX for taking the time to comment on this. I'll post back with how I get on with it all after it arrives :)
 
wEvil said:
Well I ordered the 2611w from buy.com - cheapo shipping so I should get it sometime next week

Hats off to both Hudder and ToastyX for taking the time to comment on this. I'll post back with how I get on with it all after it arrives :)
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I was thinking of the buy.com deal, but while reading comments on them there were so many complaints about orders that never showed up, I am hesitant to buy anything from them. :p

I have three weeks to decide, though. :)
 
Thank you Hudder for your additional comments and I have to fully agree with you. The Planar is going to be a great monitor for the vast majority here that are looking for a IPS monitor.
 
Anybody here ever buy from PCNation.com? I think I might get my monitor from there. Buy.com just seems to have pages and pages of bad reviews of people never gettting their stuff.
 
Can owners of this monitor comment on the height adjustment? From the Newegg pictures it looks like the height is only adjustable by a small amount, done by tilting the stand forward (down) and back (up). Is this right? If so, that's a really annoying way to change the height, because the screen distance changes as well.
 
Rembrandt said:
My hats off to you ToastyX! That was one of the best and most thorough reports seen here in a long time.
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I echo Rembrandt's thoughts as well. Well done ToastyX. Rarely do we have the opportunity to have someone contrast two fine products so quickly after the release of the Planar product. Hudder's comments have to be taken relative to the adage of in this case you get more for paying more. Those that want the extra precision and finesse of the NEC product can surely justify, pay, and get more capabilities if they desire. ToastyX has done a great service for readers by sharing his opinions on the relative strengths and weaknesses of these two displays. Certainly Hudder has some good points relative to how he views Planar's value relative to his needs. However, until someone is prepared to place the two monitors side by side as ToastyX has done, his review is about as good an independent comparison as one will get of these two products.
 
Quick question for you, ToastyX.. sorry if you answered it in your post, I read through it a few times but didn't see it. If you already answered it, feel free to insult my reading skills :(

Anyway: did you calibrate the PX2611W or the 2690 with any kind of hardware solution (colorimeter)? I really couldn't care less about its colors stock, or about calibrating colors in the OSD beyond what's necessary to set it up for colorimetery + color profile setup in software, as I have found LCD OSDs to be on the quirky side for most monitors. btw, I know it'll be different for some other folks, so I do appreciate you telling us what colors are like stock, and it goes without saying that I'm really thankful for the review-- seriously, it's just awesome to have folks who're willing to spend time helping others out with reviews like this.
 
MentatYP said:
Can owners of this monitor comment on the height adjustment? From the Newegg pictures it looks like the height is only adjustable by a small amount, done by tilting the stand forward (down) and back (up). Is this right? If so, that's a really annoying way to change the height, because the screen distance changes as well.
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I find the stand difficult to adjust. It's very stiff. I can only get it to go up about two inches.

svi said:
Anyway: did you calibrate the PX2611W or the 2690 with any kind of hardware solution (colorimeter)?
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I have, but I don't really have much to add. The NEC can be internally calibrated to almost any white point and gamma curve you want, so shades aren't lost and gradients stay smooth. The Planar can't be internally calibrated, so it has to be calibrated through the video card. I mentioned the color controls because the closer the colors are to the target, the better the calibration will be, but the color controls are not adequate because fixing the white point ends up making other parts of the grayscale inconsistent. The default setting has the most consistent grayscale. Regardless, it should calibrate well enough for most purposes.

Also, here is the gamut of the Planar at the default settings as measured with a colorimeter:
planar-gamut.png

Left is Adobe RGB.
Middle is the Planar.
Right is sRGB.
 
"It's very stiff. I can only get it to go up about two inches."

jeez.

well, at least it's very stiff. :eek:
 
According to the Planar site, height is adjustable 2.22" from 15.78" to 18".
 
ToastyX said:
Also, here is the gamut of the Planar at the default settings as measured with a colorimeter:
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Thank you ToastyX! Do you have a graph also of the gamut of the NEC please?

I'm very appreciative of your earlier comparative review.
 
You know, I haven't the slightest idea what what those colorimeter readings mean. Does that mean that if I want to adjust the display when I get it, I should do all of the adjustment through software and just leave the monitor settings alone?

That's all I think I understood of that. :p

I just thought of something but is it just me or do most people like their whites with a reddish tint? When I calibrated my CRT by eye, everybody complains it's too blue. Then I had somebody come over and calibrate it and I still messed with it and made it too blue again. :eek:
 
UrielDagda maybe your vision is different than those people. Have you had a comprehensive vision/color test?

You probably still need to adjust the monitor settings, in addition to calibrating it. The gamut charts are to show how wide of a color spectrum the monitor can display.
 
LittleMeEgo said:
UrielDagda maybe your vision is different than those people. Have you had a comprehensive vision/color test?

You probably still need to adjust the monitor settings, in addition to calibrating it. The gamut charts are to show how wide of a color spectrum the monitor can display.
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Well I have no color blindness problems that anybody can detect. I have an issue where, on anything that is backlit I can't focus on blue and red at the same time. Hence on any RGB purples are just really blurry and annoying to look at. Maybe it's not a color blindness exactly, just a shift. I just find what most people set their stuff at, its waaay too red for my taste. I would say while most people use 6500K color temp setting, I prefer more like 8500K.
 
ok, kinda off topic but im a n00b, would a p-mva like the WZ 24" Benq be better in a darker room than this S-IPS panel? This one. (the planar)
 
ToastyX, could I trouble you to take a few photos of the PS3 in 1:1 and Full modes? Also, did you try testing the scaling through VGA (xbox 360), and if so, could you post some pics of that too?

I was planning on getting a 24", but all of them seem to be fataly flawed in some way, and when I saw that this Planar was useing an IPS panel, I am now leaning towards buying it instead. I will be useing it mostly for Office work and PC, PS3 and 360 (non-elite) gaming, so the 1:1 1920x1080p scaling is VERY important. Hudder, if you have any 1080p sources to test with, i would be glad to have your opinion as well. Thanks a ton :)
 
Are all the Planar 26" like that with the bad backlight? Or is that just bad luck?
 
pothb said:
Are all the Planar 26" like that with the bad backlight? Or is that just bad luck?
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Cameras can make a small irregularity look MUCH worse than it appears. I wonder if those pictures are really accurate in terms of what it looks like to the human eye.
 
Can't wait for that Input Lag Test; as that'll be the deciding factor for me.
 
Thanks, ToastyX for your quick and professional review! I also think Hadder is right in a way, that SOME of the issues in Toasty's very proficient review are more theoretical than what we can use in practice. But, hey, we wanted a professional to be testing the product, and that's exactly what we got, right?

As one (a graphic designer with needs for sharpness and color accuracy) who is very close to make a decision, here are my comments:

A. Both 26" displays, The Planar panel is the same as NEC's, both H-IPS (I checked with Planar). What I'm wondering about, and sorry if this seems ignorant, what exactly do they mean by "panel"? Is it physically the DISPLAY/SCREEN itself? And if it is, I must guess the difference between the two is ELECTRONICS...

B. I am not at all worried/interested in the back-light bleed, since I use the display for work in a well-lit room, at a very LOW brightness (for better color accuracy).

C. From what I read here, it seems that the LCD technology is STILL developing and has some way to go... If NEC's 2690 has so many "faults" -- I can only guess this technology is still evolving...

D. Comparing the 26" Planar to NEC's, I'd guess it's the difference between a Camry and a Lexus... Another $600 would get me a better product, but both would serve me very well... Or am I wrong?
 
Xec said:
Can't wait for that Input Lag Test; as that'll be the deciding factor for me.
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me too, input lag is the one thing I will not sacrifice for anything else, I don't care how good the LCD is in other areas.
 
amikoenig said:
D. Comparing the 26" Planar to NEC's, I'd guess it's the difference between a Camry and a Lexus... Another $600 would get me a better product, but both would serve me very well... Or am I wrong?
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I think basically the only reason would be to spend the extra $600 is if your color reproduction is so mission critical that it requires professional hardware calibration... Probably way beyond the scope of the everyday user.

I think the only thing I am wondering about now is-- does NEC get to cherry pick what panels they want, then Planar gets what they reject? Electronics can't be the only reason there is such a huge price difference.
 
From Buy.com:

Ship date - Jul 9, 2007
Estimated delivery - Jul 10, 2007

Yes I appreciate both Hadder and ToastyX. Both of their reviews/feedback have been very helpful.

As far as input lag, it should be better than the NEC. I'll let you guys know ASAP how it is for gaming / input lag.
 
Also, if both are the same exact "panels" -- assuming that means the screen itself, why does NEC measure it as 25.5" while Planar claims 26"?
 
LittleMeEgo said:
From Buy.com:

Ship date - Jul 9, 2007
Estimated delivery - Jul 10, 2007

Yes I appreciate both Hadder and ToastyX. Both of their reviews/feedback have been very helpful.

As far as input lag, it should be better than the NEC. I'll let you guys know ASAP how it is for gaming / input lag.
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it will be appreciated.
 
amikoenig said:
Also, if both are the same exact "panels" -- assuming that means the screen itself, why does NEC measure it as 25.5" while Planar claims 26"?
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that cant be right, they probably rounded it to 26". The size of LCD panels is fixed you cant have an inch here and an inch their, theres alot more to it than that.
 
amikoenig said:
Also, if both are the same exact "panels" -- assuming that means the screen itself, why does NEC measure it as 25.5" while Planar claims 26"?
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Because Planar are very clever. They've introduced technology from the Dr. Who's Tardis where it's bigger on the inside than the outside.
 
UrielDagda said:
I think basically the only reason would be to spend the extra $600 is if your color reproduction is so mission critical that it requires professional hardware calibration... Probably way beyond the scope of the everyday user.

I think the only thing I am wondering about now is-- does NEC get to cherry pick what panels they want, then Planar gets what they reject? Electronics can't be the only reason there is such a huge price difference.
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they want to violate your sphincter based on brand name. thats always the best reason for a price difference.
 
Wow, the quality of posts are taking a serious nose dive.:mad:

12 bit gamma correcting is the feature that justifies the price bump which as was said, only matters for color critical work or folks that desire the best colors and accurate gradients.

This model fits nicely between the price points of the 24 and the higher end models. I wonder how long before Behardware or some other site start reviewing this screen.
 
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