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The impact of tubing sizes
- Thread starter Cathar
- Start date
Yep. It's that, and the blocks as well.
It's all about the ability to push higher flow rates for the same amount of pumping effort. With more restrictive blocks, the tubing restriction is such a small part of the problem that flow rates don't go up by much with larger bore tubing, and so neither does performance.
5 years back, water-blocks were quite literally 1/10th to 1/20th as restrictive as they are today. THAT is a big difference, and it is that which primarily changes the picture. Tubing restriction is no longer such a big proportional factor as it was with blocks 5 years ago.
sounds like TN is just trying to start some shit...
LOL. winner.
I beg to differ with you about the timing here. High quality low flow four years ago was just as good as it is today.
That is exactly what was said last time (faulty reasoning) when a lot of us were saying "Hey something ain't right here and we aren't seeing what you are claiming about this big difference." At first I felt vindicated, but then I began to wonder what else is going on right now that is being missed just like it was the last time?
This block was an excellent performer and it was built as a low flow cooler during the time everybody was prancing around the moon at midnight with garden hoses in their hands singing koombya.
Why do you think someone is trying to start shit just because they question authority?
Sorry, but you get the bobby prize.
I think that was what you also said the last time as well. Guess we gotta wait another few years to see what's up again.
I a very happy person, why do you ask?
She just seems utterly incapable of divorcing the issue of tubing size from the water-blocks from some particular manufacturer, attempting to turn analysis of the effects of tubing size into some pro-AC rant.
Larger tubing will offer less restriction, and therefore more flow, on ALL blocks. Given the same pumping power, and hence heat-dump, it has been proven again, and again, and again, and again, that given the same heat dump into a loop that more flow equates to better performance from all water-blocks and all radiators.
What has altered is the scale of it. FWIW, I never historically stated that the differences were 5C, more like 2-2.5C at worst, for some specific scenarios. I don't know who first arrived at the 5C figure, but it wasn't I. I can only presume that the 5C figure was in comparing a weak pump with small tubing, to a strong pump with large tubing, given some same specific example block, but I don't know the answer to that, 'cos I never said it nor ever observed it.
Changing the pump + tubing, is not the same issue as this thread, which is choosing to fix the pump and the waterblock, and just analyse the effects of changing the tubing + fittings.
I simply fail to understand why the simplicity of this analytical approach is so hard to grasp for some. Quite amazingly, I somewhat expected more fallout from the large-bore grognards, but aside from one or two hecklers who quickly grasped the issue with some friendly hand-holding, I find myself being attacked by those who should find comfort in such analysis. I can only presume such people must be somehow mentally challenged.
the "authority" that you are questioning is not some noob...
your credentials alone speak volumes...I think it is more or less a lack of well deserved respect that TN is lacking for all of your efforts in the watercooling world.
And maybe by then you have matured enough to grasp what all cathar has accomplshed in the watercooling world.
You just seem to be argumentative about anything...
the difference between you and cathar when it comes to watercooling is a little bit lopsided..questioning a persons authority is sometimes healthy...but you are not questioning a dummy either...until you design something and have it bought by a major company...you are just like the rest of us....
I have a question(s): Whenever "low-flow" is mentioned, it becomes associated with "small-bore"/Aqua Computer. Why? Is AC the only "low-flow" manufacturer out there? Who else makes "low-flow" components?
I get the impression from these threads that in order to be "low-flow", you have to use AC. Why? It does not make sense. For example, R1ckCa1n uses a dtek fuzion in his "low-flow" system. The fuzion just happens to be choice of many "hi-flow" systems. I believe that Ranker also uses the fuzion?
I use 7/16" tubing. Part of the reason is that I have an external box. The tubing run between this box and the computer is about 4 feet each way. With the larger tubing, I maintain a 4L/M flow rate thru the loop. Just about right according to Cather. I doubt that I could maintain this rate with 1/4" or 5/16" tubing. Some may not like the idea of an external box. Who cares. I have my reasons for this setup, and it works quite well for me.
So, back on track. I do like many of routing techniques that "small-bore" tubing brings to the table. I intensely do not like the cost of AC stuff, so I do not even consider AC. $560 for a rad?! I don't care how many bells and whistles it has. But then, who cares. To each their own.
So back to my original question: Who else makes "low-flow" components? And why do the "low-flow" people only see AC as the "low-flow" soluition?
Edit: FWIW, AC does make some VERY nice looking equipment. I doubt anyone would argue that. I just do not like the associated cost.
I get the impression from these threads that in order to be "low-flow", you have to use AC. Why? It does not make sense. For example, R1ckCa1n uses a dtek fuzion in his "low-flow" system. The fuzion just happens to be choice of many "hi-flow" systems. I believe that Ranker also uses the fuzion?
I use 7/16" tubing. Part of the reason is that I have an external box. The tubing run between this box and the computer is about 4 feet each way. With the larger tubing, I maintain a 4L/M flow rate thru the loop. Just about right according to Cather. I doubt that I could maintain this rate with 1/4" or 5/16" tubing. Some may not like the idea of an external box. Who cares. I have my reasons for this setup, and it works quite well for me.
So, back on track. I do like many of routing techniques that "small-bore" tubing brings to the table. I intensely do not like the cost of AC stuff, so I do not even consider AC. $560 for a rad?!
I don't care how many bells and whistles it has. But then, who cares. To each their own.So back to my original question: Who else makes "low-flow" components? And why do the "low-flow" people only see AC as the "low-flow" soluition?
Edit: FWIW, AC does make some VERY nice looking equipment. I doubt anyone would argue that. I just do not like the associated cost.
So, back on track. I do like many of routing techniques that "small-bore" tubing brings to the table. I intensely do not like the cost of AC stuff, so I do not even consider AC. $560 for a rad?!
So back to my original question: Who else makes "low-flow" components? And why do the "low-flow" people only see AC as the "low-flow" soluition?
Edit: FWIW, AC does make some VERY nice looking equipment. I doubt anyone would argue that. I just do not like the associated cost.
AC and most EURO companies like to use smaller tubing. Not until the last year have they realized they can combine a high end pump with their equipment and achieve incredible results. The sad part is most still confuse "low flow" with an eheim 1046 pump and very restictive block, not what actually goes on today. Hell I'd bet money the only reason Switech switched from 3/8" exclusively was due to the hype around 1/2". There also is an underlying reason why you can order most any block on the US market with either 3/8" or 1/2" barbs even today.
I have a question(s): Whenever "low-flow" is mentioned, it becomes associated with "small-bore"/Aqua Computer. Why? Is AC the only "low-flow" manufacturer out there? Who else makes "low-flow" components?
I get the impression from these threads that in order to be "low-flow", you have to use AC. Why? It does not make sense. For example, R1ckCa1n uses a dtek fuzion in his "low-flow" system. The fuzion just happens to be choice of many "hi-flow" systems. I believe that Ranker also uses the fuzion?
I use 7/16" tubing. Part of the reason is that I have an external box. The tubing run between this box and the computer is about 4 feet each way. With the larger tubing, I maintain a 4L/M flow rate thru the loop. Just about right according to Cather. I doubt that I could maintain this rate with 1/4" or 5/16" tubing. Some may not like the idea of an external box. Who cares. I have my reasons for this setup, and it works quite well for me.
So, back on track. I do like many of routing techniques that "small-bore" tubing brings to the table. I intensely do not like the cost of AC stuff, so I do not even consider AC. $560 for a rad?!
So back to my original question: Who else makes "low-flow" components? And why do the "low-flow" people only see AC as the "low-flow" soluition?
Edit: FWIW, AC does make some VERY nice looking equipment. I doubt anyone would argue that. I just do not like the associated cost.
no denying that AC does has some very nice looking stuff
I also think that it's important to understand the clear distinction "small bore" and "low flow".
Achieving 4.5lpm (~1.2gpm) flow-rates is not "low-flow", yet from the OP, we can do that with traditional small-bore tubing. 4.5lpm is mid-flow, heck, some low-flow enthusiasts might even claim that it's high-flow.
Small-bore does not necessarily equal low-flow.
"Low-flow" is more a factor of the pump, and not the tubing, although if we went and used 4mm ID tubing, then we'd be getting down to low flows almost regardless of the pump used (if selecting the pump from the set of commonly used PC water-cooling pumps).
Low-flow is also not the regime of any one manufacturer. Zalman, Koolance (although less so with their newer setups), Alphacool, Thermaltake, Innovatek, Gigabyte, Aquamate, Kingwin, 1A-Cooling, are all manufacturers who primarily utilise small low-powered pumps in conjunction with small-ID tubing. Some quality manufacturer in there, but also some manufacturers of questionable quality.
I think the main problem comes with some of the cheaper lower-quality manufacturers who dump low-quality kit onto the marketplace, and almost always such kit has small weak pumps and small tubing, and upon testing have been shown to be very poor to average, and so all and sundry associate all small-bore kit with junk, regardless of if it's justified.
It's then an uphill battle to fight for the low-flow guys. I guess that AC is the one of choice to champion the effort, because they are a quality manufacturer of good looking equipment. They are also expensive though.
Achieving 4.5lpm (~1.2gpm) flow-rates is not "low-flow", yet from the OP, we can do that with traditional small-bore tubing. 4.5lpm is mid-flow, heck, some low-flow enthusiasts might even claim that it's high-flow.
Small-bore does not necessarily equal low-flow.
"Low-flow" is more a factor of the pump, and not the tubing, although if we went and used 4mm ID tubing, then we'd be getting down to low flows almost regardless of the pump used (if selecting the pump from the set of commonly used PC water-cooling pumps).
Low-flow is also not the regime of any one manufacturer. Zalman, Koolance (although less so with their newer setups), Alphacool, Thermaltake, Innovatek, Gigabyte, Aquamate, Kingwin, 1A-Cooling, are all manufacturers who primarily utilise small low-powered pumps in conjunction with small-ID tubing. Some quality manufacturer in there, but also some manufacturers of questionable quality.
I think the main problem comes with some of the cheaper lower-quality manufacturers who dump low-quality kit onto the marketplace, and almost always such kit has small weak pumps and small tubing, and upon testing have been shown to be very poor to average, and so all and sundry associate all small-bore kit with junk, regardless of if it's justified.
It's then an uphill battle to fight for the low-flow guys. I guess that AC is the one of choice to champion the effort, because they are a quality manufacturer of good looking equipment. They are also expensive though.
Yeah, I keep getting cross-linked between "low-flow" and "small-bore" The same with "high-flow" and "big-bore". Seems to be common trait in this forum.
I probably should have just said "small-bore" and not used the "low-flow" term at all. My bad.
I do see what you mean regarding small-bore (low-flow) companies, tho. There are not many from your list I would take a second look at, based solely on the many comments regarding quality I have seen in the forums here.
BTW, to the AC people: I am not anti-AC. They do make some VERY nice looking quality components. But as I stated before, they are expensive. I simply cannot justify the cost of those components to myself.
I probably should have just said "small-bore" and not used the "low-flow" term at all. My bad.
I do see what you mean regarding small-bore (low-flow) companies, tho. There are not many from your list I would take a second look at, based solely on the many comments regarding quality I have seen in the forums here.
BTW, to the AC people: I am not anti-AC. They do make some VERY nice looking quality components. But as I stated before, they are expensive. I simply cannot justify the cost of those components to myself.
What are you talking about? "More modern blocks" nowadays do NOT use separate internal accelerator plates or nozzles. That includes the top contenders: Fuzion and Apogee. Even Koolance's latest offering is non-restrictive. There are some modern and restrictive blocks like AC's cpu block and fuzion gpu, but the trend nowadays is clearly non-restrictive designs.
I really don't understand the reasoning that follows, you seem to make a case for localized restriction (restrictive components) being fine with large bore tubing but not small bore because of some "penalty"? I don't understand that, first because in W/C localized restriction is much higher than non-localized, then, small bore vs large bore is irrelevant because tubing restriction is miniscule when compared to component restriction. So tubing size doesn't matter.
In retrospective tubing size never really mattered. Quantifying the significance of flow in itself is difficult, will more flow give you better cooling? By how much, 5c? Will a DDC 18W give you 5c better than a 10w? Personally I don't see any difference. Whenever we get realistic we see that some factors are really irrelevant to the overall picture. Tubing size is one of them.
Personally I think you were wrong in advocating large bore tubing back then. Regardless of the components, the differences between 3/8" vs 1/2" in a w/c loop is insignificant. People back then did not report 5c differences. Many people reported no differences. The 1c difference is debatable. You mentioned that back then people saw 1C difference and it mattered. Your latest analysis suggests that the same holds for today's components. So the components have changed over the years, but the consensus remains: tubing size doesn't matter.
The analysis 3-5 years or so ago was flawed. The Germans were right all along. But that's fine, we learned from it. Hey, as long as we remain open-minded. It'll just take some time to get the industry to shift back to 3/8, if ever
Ahh, my good mate, the mindless troll known as migueld.
A quick perusal of the pressure-drop characteristics of the two popular blocks will find that they are still around 5-10x as restrictive as the popular blocks of 5 years back (Maze 3/4). Only the truly retarded troll would not check their facts before posting. So much for that point.
There are more blocks around in the last two years, than 5-6 years ago, that use accelerator plates. True or false? The temporary ascendance of any one design primarily based upon its ability to be warped to perform on a flawed socket mounting system is not a design aspect to uphold. The Fuzion, with nozzles, outperforms the Apogee as demonstrated by the more switched on members, yet has an higher pressure drop. As a result of the feedback, the Fuzion will be receiving nozzles in case you weren't aware of the developments.
The rest of your post is misguided, misinformed trolling drivel. I'll not entertain it.
A quick perusal of the pressure-drop characteristics of the two popular blocks will find that they are still around 5-10x as restrictive as the popular blocks of 5 years back (Maze 3/4). Only the truly retarded troll would not check their facts before posting. So much for that point.
There are more blocks around in the last two years, than 5-6 years ago, that use accelerator plates. True or false? The temporary ascendance of any one design primarily based upon its ability to be warped to perform on a flawed socket mounting system is not a design aspect to uphold. The Fuzion, with nozzles, outperforms the Apogee as demonstrated by the more switched on members, yet has an higher pressure drop. As a result of the feedback, the Fuzion will be receiving nozzles in case you weren't aware of the developments.
The rest of your post is misguided, misinformed trolling drivel. I'll not entertain it.
The system we're comparing is a DangerDen Maze 4, an Eheim 1048 or Eheim 1250, and a Thermochill HE120.2 with some decent fans on board. ~4 years ago, this was a high performance system in the USA.
Interactive flow-performance results, on an 80W mildly overclocked CPU of the same era may be found here.
The HE120.2 radiator performance curve can be found here. We'll be using the pink curve to represent the fans, which would be about the full-time tolerable noise limit for many individuals.
We'll be assuming a 120W CPU heat load though, which was more typical of the high-end overclockers of the day. Pump heat dump is ~10W for the 1250, and 5W for the 1048.
The flow rates between 3/8" and 1/2" are seen on this graph:
For the 1048:
3/8" => 4.8LPM
1/2" => 6.9LPM
For the 1250:
3/8" => 6.2LPM
1/2" => 9.6LPM
Looking to our Procooling graph, and multiplying the values by 1.5 (120/80), we get:
1048 1/2" to 3/8" delta => 1.4C
1250 1/2" to 3/8" delta => 1.8C
The estimated radiator water temperatures are:
For the E1048:
125W @ 4.8LPM => 5.4C
125W @ 6.9LPM => 5.2C
=> 0.2C delta
For the E1250:
130W @ 6.2LPM => 5.5C
130W @ 9.6LPM => 5.2C
=> 0.3C delta
With lower speed fans, the radiator performance deltas get slightly larger.
So the total delta for 3/8" tubing with barbs to 1/2" tubing with barbs is:
1048 => 1.9C
1250 => 2.1C
Which from memory is about what I said it was in the past.
Once again, I just provided the analysis and info. If everyone then decided that 2C was worth the difference, that was their choice.
Interactive flow-performance results, on an 80W mildly overclocked CPU of the same era may be found here.
The HE120.2 radiator performance curve can be found here. We'll be using the pink curve to represent the fans, which would be about the full-time tolerable noise limit for many individuals.
We'll be assuming a 120W CPU heat load though, which was more typical of the high-end overclockers of the day. Pump heat dump is ~10W for the 1250, and 5W for the 1048.
The flow rates between 3/8" and 1/2" are seen on this graph:
For the 1048:
3/8" => 4.8LPM
1/2" => 6.9LPM
For the 1250:
3/8" => 6.2LPM
1/2" => 9.6LPM
Looking to our Procooling graph, and multiplying the values by 1.5 (120/80), we get:
1048 1/2" to 3/8" delta => 1.4C
1250 1/2" to 3/8" delta => 1.8C
The estimated radiator water temperatures are:
For the E1048:
125W @ 4.8LPM => 5.4C
125W @ 6.9LPM => 5.2C
=> 0.2C delta
For the E1250:
130W @ 6.2LPM => 5.5C
130W @ 9.6LPM => 5.2C
=> 0.3C delta
With lower speed fans, the radiator performance deltas get slightly larger.
So the total delta for 3/8" tubing with barbs to 1/2" tubing with barbs is:
1048 => 1.9C
1250 => 2.1C
Which from memory is about what I said it was in the past.
Once again, I just provided the analysis and info. If everyone then decided that 2C was worth the difference, that was their choice.
Please
I would have mentioned a few other blocks, but I didn't have the pics. Besides I mentioned the Evo block because it is an excellent block for the pumps in use by many in the European scene. I don't think that block would have been very good for pumps in use here in the USA at the time.I agree, but there were some designs, like the Evo, that didn't work well with higher flowing pumps. They worked better with the pumps like the Eheim 1046 and its variants.
Okay, my bad.
Yeah that's me the mentally challenged ICU nurse that takes care of people like you when they come to the ICU all broken up from doing crazy shit on motorcycles.
Actually I didn't find much solace in your new analysis because I already knew that what I was seeing several years ago wasn't a [H]ardDream. See, it is this point where you're on the wrong tangent.
All blocks improve their performance with higher water flow rate.
I'd be truly interested in knowing what led you to believe that blocks can perform worse with more flow. This has never been found to be the case in any review I've seen of any waterblock, no matter its "flow persuasion", or country of origin.
As for challenged nurses, one of the ones that I had on my recent trip to the hospital was a shocker. This was a person who struggled to apply hair removal product according to the directions on the bottle in preparation for surgery. She was so inept that I had to do it myself after the second failed attempt. Just before she tried to take my pulse from my shattered wrist by pushing down right on where the break was. She also took it upon herself to remove all of my painkillers that the doctor had prescribed, and despite my increasing complaints of being in pain, it wasn't until a shift-change that I got some relief. The rest of the nurses were fine.
See, to me, being a nurse is no guarantee.
And that makes it any different? Sorry but I gave that nonsense up with the girl scouts. I've challenged God before so why would I feel circumspect about any mortal?
Not true, however when it comes to screwing around with my computer it's all up in the air.
the difference between you and cathar when it comes to watercooling is a little bit lopsided..questioning a persons authority is sometimes healthy...but you are not questioning a dummy either...until you design something and have it bought by a major company...you are just like the rest of us....
You can believe that if you want, but just because your selling doesn't mean I'm buying
No matter how well you explain yourself, no matter the visible proof, the pro-AC crowd will find a way to claim that AC is king, low flow is best, and that they were right all along.
My father (a physician) sees it all the time at the hospital: rogue nurses who think they know better and will find every recourse to prove their intuitions are right at the patient's expense no matter what the doctor has prescribed/ordered.
Huh? You are kidding right? So you make up stories about today's blocks being nozzle driven, then you call me a troll and now you keep making up stuff about old blocks being 5-10 times less restrictive? So how do you explain the following chart:
The maze 3 is not even half less restrictive, if that much, than the Apogee classic (which has about the same pressure drop than the newer GT and GTX and similar to the Fuzion), if that much. Where the hell is your 5-10 times figure? What's your next excuse? You were trolling? I guess so, by your definition you must be a troll.
I'm well aware of the Fuzion nozzle development which is a couple of months old and doesn't seem to be materializing any time soon. However, the Fuzion as it stands now was designed as a non-restrictive block, it was designed to perform excellently without nozzles. Swiftech's deviation from Storm and dedication to Apogee makes it clear that they are after non-restrictive designs. The bowed effect was not originally intended for the design, but it was a welcomed discovery with many users capitalizing on it. The fact remains, there is a clear trend for non-restrictive designs. I don't discard the possibility of future designs or add-ons to be nozzle-driven but that is not case now. Why you keep claiming otherwise is beyond reason.
Cathar, I honestly expected more from you, the name-calling and insulting is really childish and cheap. This seems to be a recent trend, I've been reading some of your posts which are richly dressed in "elite" wording but seems deceitful. If I were you I'd watch out; people eventually will start jumping at that kind of misinformation.
Also be careful with your simulations, they are heavely prone to error, and I don't see you running too many real world tests for reality checking.
Edit: Sorry, I dont like being harsh, but someone had to say it. This know-it-all-dont-contradict-me attitude is getting tiresome.
How is it cheap when even XS regards you as a low flow troll? You were our forum's Top Nurse before TN made her brief visit over on XS while [H] was down.
The only misinformation being spread is the stuff coming from the 'low flow is best flow/ Pro-AC' crowd.
I think it became associated with AC because others and I were quite vocal about it that used AC components. The others didn't and so there was no connection. In actuality AC stuff isn't really low flow per se, but others perceive it as such. I think AC is more connected with the small bore tubing than anything else. It also is one of the more popular discussion topics on this forum either flaming them or praising them.
In actuality there are lots of low-flow manufacturers, but most people flame them even more than AC due to their less than stellar quality. You see them all the time here on the forum. Just check out the wc threads where someone asks someone if so and so's kit is any good. You will catch on fast about who I'm talking about.
I think it became associated with AC because others and I were quite vocal about it that used AC components. The others didn't and so there was no connection. In actuality AC stuff isn't really low flow per se, but others perceive it as such. I think AC is more connected with the small bore tubing than anything else. It also is one of the more popular discussion topics on this forum either flaming them or praising them.
In actuality there are lots of low-flow manufacturers, but most people flame them even more than AC due to their less than stellar quality. You see them all the time here on the forum. Just check out the wc threads where someone asks someone if so and so's kit is any good. You will catch on fast about who I'm talking about.
Yea I wonder about that. It may be because AC is the weaker target, they got alu stuff so it's easier to antagonize. Alphacool is an excellent company that uses small bore tubing as well, yet I don't hear much bashing, I wonder why?
Actually they started using the DDC's right off the bat with everyone else. However, the vibration and noise set them off and they tossed it back into the bin. It has taken them a few years to develop control circuitry (AC and Alphacool) to manage the nastier sides of the Laing DDC pumps. Now that well engineered control circuitry has been developed that can make them less noisy we may see it gain more ground in the Euro sector.
ROFL, really? I'm regarded as troll at XS? LOL since when? I'm a 3/8 user, I don't see how that's low flow? I've always respected the choices of other people. The opposite can't be said of some at XS. If I remember correctly I remember you trolling about it, and other people calling it gay. Now that is trolling.
Ranker, I think you are a good guy, but sometimes you don't make much sense :-/
I was talking about the Apogee GTX. I was talking about the Maze 4, but the Maze 3 as well - sure enough.
Apogee GTX pressure drop
That's with 3/8" fittings. At 1.5gpm, that's ~1.4mH2O.
At 1.5gpm, the pressure drop of 3/8" barbed fittings is: 0.21mH2O
At 1.5gpm, the pressure drop of 1/2" barbed fittings is: 0.12mH2O
That's a 0.09mH2O difference.
Ergo, the PD of the GTX at 1.5gpm with 1/2" fittings is ~1.31mH2O
The PD of the Maze 3 is ~0.45PSI @ 1.5gpm from the SC graph, or ~0.32mH2O
Gee, thats over a 4x difference for the Maze 3, with its old school low 9mm ID 1/2" barbs. The Maze 4 had half the PD of the Maze 3.
Oh, and the Apogee classic, GT, and the GTX, are increasingly restrictive over each other, and each performs better than the last.
What were you saying about progressions towards lower restriction, hmmm?
As for insults being cheap, you sure don't mind throwing them my way by attempting to say that everything I am claiming is false, and attempting to blame me personally for all that you see wrong in the water-cooling world, do you? Nay, when I see someone who is acting foolish, I'll call them that flat out. You label me a liar, no matter how subtle you thought the implication was, and yes, I will bite back.
Guess you hadn't see the PD curves of the Stealth GPU block then?
Swiftech's all about non-restrictive designs eh? Do tell! That block is close to 3x as restrictive as the Storm!
Yes, it's a GPU block, I know. The point being that Swiftech haven't exactly followed the low-restriction philosophy across their range, have they?
Hey buddy nice to see you over here.
I don't think Cathar is going to like what you have to say. I always like to hear from people that trust real life experience and testing over math. Math might get you to look in a certain direction, but it is the real life observations that prove it out or not. In this new research some have the opportunity to test some more while others won't need to do any testing at all.
Yep the Germans were right all along. They have been sitting back totally amused about the silly Americans and their garden hose cooling for quite some time now.
There's ignorance, which I can accept and have tolerance for, and then there's the deliberate display of ignorance, which for someone like me, can only interpret as intent to troll because there is no other logical explanation for it.
FFS, I'm on the side of exposing and destroying harmful myths, and the reason for this thread was that I had enough of the crap about 2-5C temp deltas, when worst case it was only ever 2C, and yes, that was measured at the time, and no, I don't still have the equipment.
Even when presented with information that updates out of date information, and destroys exaggerated myths of 5C that I never started, I find myself under attack by those whom have been desperately crying out for such information, and attempting to nail me to the wall for figures I never presented, and blame me for myths I never started.
As for Germans having it right all along, why is then that we're seeing more Tuetonic systems using more powerful pumps "with good results", and tubing sizes creeping up? Could it be that the answer lies in the middle of the two extremes? Something that I had been arguing for, for a long time.
Truly, that is just beyond comprehension to me. Talk about going out of one's way to be objectionable just for the sake of it. Truly sad.
I started this thread to destroy old myths. Imagine my surprise when I find people attacking me for trying to destroy the myths that caused them so much grief.
FFS, I'm on the side of exposing and destroying harmful myths, and the reason for this thread was that I had enough of the crap about 2-5C temp deltas, when worst case it was only ever 2C, and yes, that was measured at the time, and no, I don't still have the equipment.
Even when presented with information that updates out of date information, and destroys exaggerated myths of 5C that I never started, I find myself under attack by those whom have been desperately crying out for such information, and attempting to nail me to the wall for figures I never presented, and blame me for myths I never started.
As for Germans having it right all along, why is then that we're seeing more Tuetonic systems using more powerful pumps "with good results", and tubing sizes creeping up? Could it be that the answer lies in the middle of the two extremes? Something that I had been arguing for, for a long time.
Truly, that is just beyond comprehension to me. Talk about going out of one's way to be objectionable just for the sake of it. Truly sad.
I started this thread to destroy old myths. Imagine my surprise when I find people attacking me for trying to destroy the myths that caused them so much grief.
HyperTension
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Messages
- 1,218
Congrats on your father... You really don't want me to start throwing barbs at the silliness that doctors do. "Rogue".. Unless your father gave you an explanation of what that is, would you really have any idea? "At the patients expense".. .. .. Please... As a ICU/CCU/ED RN I can tell you volumes of what Doctors do, and what we as Nursing Professionals do to remedy events for both physician / families. I'm sure, (and I work with a few) that should not be in the environment that they are, but that can be said for every environment, including here.
I know this post is OT, but comments like yours really deserve to be refuted. Especially given the fact that you have minimal exposure to this, relaying this information second hand, and inherently biased.
Because the other large low flow small tubing companies (alphacool innovatke) do not have a small yet dedicated group of people on the forum horking their products at every given chance on this forum.
I'm not against small tubing low flow, it makes a case cleaner, and I've used innovatek products in the past. But check how many dedicated threads about alphacool or innovatek there are here.
This reminds me of the American Old West. Everyone wants their chance at the fastest gun. So... Cather, start ducking.
Unlike the Old West, one can hand out the nastiest "shots" and then hide behind their
anonymity of the WWW. ILO taking their "medicine" when they find out that they not the fastest.
Was this a foreign born nurse? Lot's of nurse's in other countries emigrate or do what they call travel nursing. While they may be licensable in other countries they sometimes have problems with communication and understanding cultural issues that can lead to problems. However this nurse reminds me of my worst nightmare (waking up after anesthesia to see the nurse who got a barely passing grade in anatomy and physiology). Sorry you had to go through that. Next time something like that happens please ask to speak immediately to the charge nurse, unit manager, nursing supervisor, risk manager, or even the CEO.
Back to the blocks. Yes you can add more flow, but sometimes the available fittings don't allow you to use larger tubes and thus you can only cram so much water through the spigot. The rest of it gets backed up and creates more heat whereas a lower flowing pump doesn't have that issue.
I hate to tell you this, but nurses run the hospitals NOT doctors. A nurses job is to care for the patient all the while protecting them from all the other people trying to screw them. I can tell you won't go far if you work in a hospital with your attitude. The nurses will chew you up and spit you out even before they have their morning coffee.
Sorry to tell you this but the Germans were right all along like migueld said. Aqua Computer just happens to be one of a whole passel of water cooling companies in Germany. I think there are more German water cooling companies than there are other companies throughout the whole world.