The WC Thread: You got questions, we got answers!

what's the dimensions of clearfle one should get? there's a choice between two 1/2" ID's one has a bend of 2-3/4 and one is 3.. ?

flip
 
fLiPaChu said:
what's the dimensions of clearfle one should get? there's a choice between two 1/2" ID's one has a bend of 2-3/4 and one is 3.. ?

flip
Click to expand...

I think most would use the 1/8th inch wall stuff. Tube selection depends a lot on your setup ie if you have some tight bends you probably want the Tygon because the radius is better. Of course you can always use fittings, but they tend to restrict flow a bit.

:)
 
Has anyone watercooled a Wavemaster using a big heatercore(Bonneville or Bigger)? I can only come up with one place to mount it and I am looking for input as to the location. Thanks in advance.
 
Im am thinkin about putting together a water cooling setup for my system. However I dont have the room for any 120mm radiator :mad: My case doenst have the room. and I really cant have a external unit for my system. I cant have a external unit either cause I have a couple cats that im afraid they might do someting to the external tubing. I have room for a couple 80 mm radiators. I was looking @ the dual 80mm Black Ice Micro II and a single 80mm micro one. If I run each of them wtih push and pull 80mm fans on them.. I was wonder how this setup woudl be able to h andle my A64 3200+ and mabye my 9800pro.. I have enohg room to put the dual 80 radiator on the back of my case and the other 80 on teh top of my case.
 
This was just an awesome article! Thanks for taking the time to write it up. I've been researching what I want to do now for about 2 weeks. I've come down to a few questions on my setup:

What's the best location for the radiator? Bottom front of case (fans sucking air in and through the radiator), outside the case (on the rear, perhaps), or at the top of the case with a blowhole directly above it (like the Koolance design)?

If it's at the bottom front, would it not heat up the case and require some sort of blowhole to get the heat out? I'm thinking that there would be more air coming in than going out if there was only one fan (the PSU) blowing air out of the case.

Which leads to my next question on what effect a fanless PSU or even a water cooled PSU would have on the whole design? Wouldn't the lack of a fan on the PSU just "seal in" all the hot air if there were no fans sucking air out? The reason I bring this up is I've been reading about people "sealing" their cases. This seems counterproductive to me.

I'm trying to get a virtually silent case that won't overheat in a fairly warm room in the summertime. As it stands right now, I cannot put the sides of my tower on or it will overheat and lock up.
 
Skirge01 said:
What's the best location for the radiator? Bottom front of case (fans sucking air in and through the radiator), outside the case (on the rear, perhaps), or at the top of the case with a blowhole directly above it (like the Koolance design)?

If it's at the bottom front, would it not heat up the case and require some sort of blowhole to get the heat out? I'm thinking that there would be more air coming in than going out if there was only one fan (the PSU) blowing air out of the case.

Which leads to my next question on what effect a fanless PSU or even a water cooled PSU would have on the whole design? Wouldn't the lack of a fan on the PSU just "seal in" all the hot air if there were no fans sucking air out? The reason I bring this up is I've been reading about people "sealing" their cases. This seems counterproductive to me.
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Best place... That is a really tough question, because a lot of it depends on what your current case looks like. You can pretty much put it anywhere you can fit it, and you'll be alright. However, if you can put it somewhere that it is getting cold air flowing through it, you'll get the best performance. But like you said, if you put it at the front bottom, then you'll be introducing a lot of hot air to your system, so you're going to need some good airflow to keep the system temps down still. I personally have mine mounted on the back of my case, where I had a spot for a 120 mm fan. I have a DTek Pro Core, outside the case on the back, with a shroud in between the case and the radiator, and then a 120mm fan just inside the case there (hope that wasn't too confusing a description). That seems to work well for me, as I still have a decent amount of airflow through my case (3 120mm fans) to constantly keep a supply of cold air inside. Same thing would apply if you put it on top of your case, with a blowhole blowing through it.

One thing you could try though, to make sure you get cold air through your radiator and still keep the hot air out of your case, is to mount it on the top or back of your case, but maybe sideways or something, with fans on it blowing cold air through. This would eliminate both issues of blowing hot case air through the rad, or hot rad air into the case. However, for what your end goal is, that doesn't sound all that practical. Although, if you want to have everything else fanless on your case (including your psu), then that might be a viable option, as it wouldn't introduce hot air to your PSU. Something to think about, at any rate.
 
Thanks for the quick response, Dark Ember. Now I know that I'm thinking about this the right way and making the right assumptions on how the cooling should work. I understood how you described your radiator, since I've seen pictures of similar setups on numerous sites.

Two more questions, if I might trouble you once more... Let's say I mount the radiator on the outside of the case as you suggested. I'll have no fans whatsoever inside the case. Do you think the heat inside the case would be acceptable with 3 WD 7200rpm HD's & 2 CD drives creating heat that isn't removed by way of a fan? Obviously this is your *opinion* and I won't come back here yelling at you if you're wrong. :)

The final question I have is what cases do people recommend for water cooling? I have an older full tower case that isn't very user friendly, so I figure I may as well replace it when I go for this project. There's just an unlimited number of cases to choose from, so I figure someone has a few favorites. I don't want to spend a fortune on the case and I don't intend to mod it at all.
 
wayne said:
whats impeller housing?

whats kinking?

also...
i know what ZIF is but what exactly does it stand for?
Click to expand...

Impeller housing is what is around the impeller. Think of it like thi. On a boat you have a PROpeller, which pushes the boat through the water moving the boat forward. On a jet ski/wave runner/jet boat you have an IMpeller which pulls the water through the craft moving it forward. The housing is simply what contains the impeller.

Kinking is when the hose is bent too sharply causing it to flatten a bit. Kinda like when you grab your garden house and bend it in half to stop the water flow. Well you don't want that to happen in a water cooled rig so the more resistant it is to kinking the better.

ZIF stands for Zero Insertion Force. CPUs have zero insertion force. You don't need to use pressure to install them. RAM, PCI and AGP cards all require pressure to insert them so their sockets are not ZIFs
 
Skirge01 said:
Two more questions, if I might trouble you once more... Let's say I mount the radiator on the outside of the case as you suggested. I'll have no fans whatsoever inside the case. Do you think the heat inside the case would be acceptable with 3 WD 7200rpm HD's & 2 CD drives creating heat that isn't removed by way of a fan? Obviously this is your *opinion* and I won't come back here yelling at you if you're wrong. :)

The final question I have is what cases do people recommend for water cooling? I have an older full tower case that isn't very user friendly, so I figure I may as well replace it when I go for this project. There's just an unlimited number of cases to choose from, so I figure someone has a few favorites. I don't want to spend a fortune on the case and I don't intend to mod it at all.
Click to expand...


Not so quick response this time.... :eek:

If it were me, I would try to have at least one intake fan on your case somewhere. Thats going to help a lot with cooling your radiator as well. I mean, it would work without another fan, just not nearly as well as it could. I personally wouldn't do that, but, its up to you.

As far as cases, I really like a particular antec one.

http://www.antec.com/us/pro_details_enclosure.php?ProdID=93703

Thats the case that I have. Comes with a silent 120mm fan that you could put in front of the hard drive cage too, for an intake. That would work well for getting some airflow around those 3 hard disks. Then cut out the back 120mm fan grill, and mount your radiator and fan there, and you're set! Well, unless its a dual 120mm radiator. Then you might have problems with that... Its not a massively huge case either, which is nice. Its big enough though. I cut a 120mm hole in the side and top, and have 2 other silent 120mm intake fans at both of those locations as well. Seems to work very well...
 
Question about the water temperature.

Does anyone monitor the temp of the water in the system and if so how hot does it run?
Does it matter in the overall effectiveness of the cooling? Are there any condensation issues? especially on the metal blocks..
Anyone tried putting icecubes in their reservior to help keep things cool? Would this potentially be helpful or harmful?
Any advantage to using an antifreeze mixture instead of plain water?

Question about the blocks - how do they mount to the CPU / GPU / etc? bolt on, clip on, etc. Does it require the MB to be removed to accomplished.

Question about case design - could you use a bulkhead type fitting on the case so as to locate the pump external to the case - attach the blocks together and atach hoses but instead of connecting them to the pump, hook them to the bulkhead fitting installed the in case somewhere - then you could attach these to any imaginable pump -avoid the pump generated heat issue. Also you could get creative and just hook up the garden hose on full blast. You could run the tubing through a counterchiller device which would be more efficient than a radiator I would think. A bit messy to be practical for everyday use but practical seems a bad word to use on this forum...

COmments?
 
Ok I have this question, does someone make watercooling blocks for Pentium 3 Xeon processors? and Also how does Emachineshop work, I have seen their site, but I have no knowledge of designing parts in 3D?

Here is my problem, I am working on modding a computer case to fit a quad Xeon MB, the 4 processors that I am planning to get is 550mhz 1M cache, I currently am on a budget, I could air cool it, but I would rather try to water cool this machine instead.

If you have an answer to my problems, please pass them my way.
Oh I forgot, the processors use a Slot 2 design which is longer than Slot 1.
 
They don't make any slot type blocks. You'll have to make your own.
 
another post on the flow order would be nice for the FAQ... I'm seeing:
pump > radiator > CPU > GPU > NB > Res > pump as a general flow.

With the new 6800's running so hot, would it make a difference to put the GPU in front of the CPU? I'm thinking about going pump > rad > gpu > cpu > res > pump.
 
i wouldnt think a change in the original loop would be necessary, water is gonna get cooled down somewhere along the loop anyway.

now for my question ;)

i have just begun my first water cooling project, and out of curiosity, is there a pretty in-depth faq on t-line fill/bleed? thats how i wish to do my setup and i cant seem to find much(perhaps i havent looked hard enough, but i have checked this forum;) )

thanks
 
Well, using a T-line to bleed is more just a matter of time. In fact, its kind of a pain in the ass. I use a T line, because I don't feel like finding a place to put a reservoir.

So, basically, you want your T right before your pump, and at the highest point possible. After you have that all set up, slowly pour some water down into the loop, and when there is a significant amount sitting in front of your pump's intake, turn your pump on and keep pouring. This part should go pretty fast. You'll eventually get to the point where there is water flowing through your loop, but air bubbles all over the place. Then comes the more annoying part. You'll probably have to start moving all the rest of your parts around (blocks, radiator) to jostle the air out of them so they can come out the T line. Keep doing that and just let your loop run for a long time, and eventually, they should all come out.

Some additives make the larger bubbles in your loop turn into a kind of "foam" of little tiny bubbles. These things take forever to get out using a T line. After I get a good portion of them out, i generally just let my loop run until they are gone. Another technique would be to turn your pump off periodically, and let the little bubbles collect together. Then move your tubing around so it directs a pocket of them out the top of your T line. That has always seemed to work well for me.

Hope that helps. Good luck!!

 
thanks dark ember. so if i put the t line right before the intake of the pump(ie after the radiator) itll work out fine? also can i use a y line, with the "y" facing towards the top of the case? (for example, the line is going through the "y" coming from the radiator and the extra arm is also facing the top, creating a nice little place for the water to be filled.)

thanks
 
Yep thats right. You want the water from your T to go directly to the inlet of your pump.

And a Y will work fine, as long as the open side is angled upwards, but you probably guessed that.

:)

 
Is having a fan as the exhaust really necissary? I'd like to keep my nice blue 120mm in the rear of my PC.

If I don't want another fan replacing mine, is it then necissary to go to external WCing such as Thermaltake's Aquarius III?

It would probably be best to purchase a sepereate waterblock for the 6800 I know, but then it gets a little too expensive.

[edit] solved
 
Interloper said:
Anyone tried putting icecubes in their reservior to help keep things cool? Would this potentially be helpful or harmful?
Click to expand...

i would only see this being a problem. 2 reasons i can think of right now,

1. if you used normal ice cubes from a refrigerator, it would be like putting tap water in your wc setup. you could freeze distilled water into ice cubes and put them into a res, but that isn't very practical (for me atleast), since you would probably have to do it a few times daily.

2. another problem you might run into is condensation, since you would then be going under ambiet temps.

afaik overflowing wouldn't be a problem though (if you can fully close the lid on the res after putting in the cubes), since the ice cubes would take up less space after turning into water.
 
maxxo said:
i would only see this being a problem. 2 reasons i can think of right now,

1. if you used normal ice cubes from a refrigerator, it would be like putting tap water in your wc setup. you could freeze distilled water into ice cubes and put them into a res, but that isn't very practical (for me atleast), since you would probably have to do it a few times daily.

2. another problem you might run into is condensation, since you would then be going under ambiet temps.

afaik overflowing wouldn't be a problem though (if you can fully close the lid on the res after putting in the cubes), since the ice cubes would take up less space after turning into water.
Click to expand...
also that it dilutes the coolent

btw, whats afaik stand for?... i forgot because i havent used that for a long time
 
afaik=As far as I know. Thank god for editing lol.

Im planning my first water system now and Im wanting to make as much of it as possible myself, custom. Im looking at putting the heater core on top of the case with a homemade shroud/case for it so there are only the 2 small holes for the lines going into the main case.

I see a lot of custom work done with lexan, plexiglass, steel, aluminum, wood practicly every material known except I havent seen a single thing done with fiberglass. Ive had a lot of experience with making hand laid glass custom spoilers and the like so Im thinking of all my custom stuff will be fiberglass. Its lightweight, stronger than most anything when laid properly and you can make almost any case/bracket/mount you can think of out of it. Anyone know of any custom rigs with fiberglass in em I can check out for pointers and Ideas?


Also for the other new to water guys here Im gonna make a suggestion. If ur gonna make a system for just ur CPU go big enough on everything else so you dont have to start upgrading ur rad, pump etc. if you want to add a GPU and/or northbridge cooler later. Remember thats advice from someone who hasnt built a single water setup yet.
 
wayne said:
also that it dilutes the coolent

btw, whats afaik stand for?... i forgot because i havent used that for a long time
Click to expand...

as far as i know.
 
So as I was driving home, I got to thinking about different ways of routing my future WC tubing. I had just crawled out from under the hood of my truck, as well. This lead to an idea that might be completely bad, but who knows.

Use metal tubing instead of rubber/poly. Seriously. Think brake line in a car. Get some 3/8" or 1/2" ID copper tubing, and bend it. Eh? I would think the copper tube itself would help cool the water, plus you wouldn't have to worry about kinks. Heck, you could even use those billet aluminum connectors that are for automotive use, and have a seriously trick setup.
 
condensation...... could wrap it with neoprene though... don't really know if the temp in the coolant would get low enough to cause condensation.... think dehumidifier.... supposedly the cray supercomputers usie stainless tubing...
 
hope you don't have any aluminum or you're just askinf for corosion even with an anticorosive agent.
 
I was thinking copper tubing, because that's what the blocks and heater cores are made of, correct? Sure, it's pretty permanent, but it would look nice.
 
maxxo said:
afaik overflowing wouldn't be a problem though (if you can fully close the lid on the res after putting in the cubes), since the ice cubes would take up less space after turning into water.
Click to expand...
Actually, overflow could become an issue. All materials expand when heated.

You might also suck a chunk of ice down your lines, which I'm sure wouldn't be good for your pump. :eek:
 
Posted this on the main forum, but does anyone have soem sites where they have a printable guide to watercooling. Want to do soem research before buying and moding.
 
Could someone post some temps, block, and cpu? Just curious to see improvements over using air, thanks
 
here is a question i need the answer to what kind of radiater of heater core could fit in a 5.25" drive bay???
 
Rally said:
Actually, overflow could become an issue. All materials expand when heated.
Click to expand...

That's not quite true, try searching google for "negative thermal expansion coefficient" and you'll see that there are indeed materials which shrink when you heat them. The case of ice-water is slightly different, as it involves a phase change, but water also "expands" when it is liquified from ice.

Combat Wombat - rigid tubing is not typically used because it's much easier to run flexible tubing through your case. If not bent exactly right, the tubing could also place stress upon the waterblock(s) and CPU, etc. You could pretyy easily use some rigid sections as well as flexible tubing to relieve this problem, I've actually done that in the past.
 
I have a few suggestions to add for anyone putting a WC system together.

1. Get a tubing cutter designed for soft to rigid (poly - looks white and is bendable, but still very stiff) tubing. It makes for much nicer cuts than you can ever do with a razor blade, utility knife, or heavy-duty scissors. I bought one at Home Depot for $15. I would reccomend staying away from ones that "ratchet" closed as they are meant for small diameter PVC and other rigit tubing. The ratcheting action would make for a big hastle while cutting soft, floppy tubing.

2. Heating the tubing before pushing it on over the hose barbs does make it easier to put on, especially if you are using 3/8" id tubing and 1/2" od fittings. I also found out the hard way that it is best to dip only about 3/4" to 1" of the tubing in, otherwise it gets too soft to push on. Also, don't use boiling water, just very hot water.

3. Even after heating the tubing can be a bit "stickey" going on. I read somewhere to use water/coolant to wet the barb before pushing it on, but that doesn't help sometimes. Another alternative is dish washing detergant. A small ammount applied to the barb with a Q-tip works wonders. It's also water soluable and will wash off/out with a quick rinse. And even if it doesn't it won't hurt because it is a type of water wetter (it lowers surface tension of water), and the ammount you apply to the barb to get the tubing on should be way less than a single drop.
 
is there anything out there that will let me attach 1/2->3/8 barbs or nipples directly to my heater core/radiator.

i cut the flanged end off the heater core pipe cuz i couldnt get the 1/2 hose over the end of it. even after dipping it in boiling water to make it really soft. and still cant get it over the straight pipe.

one guy told me to use JB weld but comeone i want it to look 1/2 way decent. and i dont have any around the house lol.
i tried sticking the 1.2'' hose inside the copper pipe and then covering it with black RTV silicon, but it wouldnt hold.. still leaked the RTV wouldnt stick to the copper or the rubber hose. and it didnt take much of moving the hose and it broke loose and leaked.

any suggestions fellas.

ps - i dont have any 5/8 hose either to go over the copper then stick the 1/2 hose inside the 5/8 then put a little silicon around it to seal.
 
You can get fittings at your local home improvement store that will fit over the 1/2" copper pipe (that are threaded at one end) and solder them on. Then you screw a threaded barb into that fitting. Just take a piede of the pipe that you cut off with you so that you can make sure you get the correct fittings.
 
I'm thinking of watercooling and while the temp benefit might not be that much, the sound benefit is. However, I have a question that I haven't seen asked in this, and it's a fairly large concern of mine:

What kind of maintenance is there? Do you have to replace the tubing, water, or any of the components, or is it a 'set it up once and basically forget it' sort of thing?


Edit: I also meant to ask about the testing for leaks. Once you install the WC setup in your computer and you test for leaks the second time with the computer off, it's safe, right? If there's a leak, then you just have to wait for the water to dry completely[2-3days] then it'll be safe to run your computer again. I mean, it's safe since there's no current flowing through anything in the comp, correct?
 
Nice thread... almost got myself a WC setup from DanderDan... thx for pimpage! :D

The only problem I have is with figuring out the ID/OD thingies. Barbs/fittins designed for 1/2 OD wont go well with 3/8ID - 1/2 OD tubing right?

One more question: do you need sealants and what are those? where do you get those?
 
Hinokagutsuchi said:
I'm thinking of watercooling and while the temp benefit might not be that much, the sound benefit is. However, I have a question that I haven't seen asked in this, and it's a fairly large concern of mine:

What kind of maintenance is there? Do you have to replace the tubing, water, or any of the components, or is it a 'set it up once and basically forget it' sort of thing?


Edit: I also meant to ask about the testing for leaks. Once you install the WC setup in your computer and you test for leaks the second time with the computer off, it's safe, right? If there's a leak, then you just have to wait for the water to dry completely[2-3days] then it'll be safe to run your computer again. I mean, it's safe since there's no current flowing through anything in the comp, correct?
Click to expand...

Maintenance is what you make of it when you first put the system together. Take your time, do it right, and use the right stuff and you should pretty much be maintenance free for 6+ months. You will have to change the water every so often though, just like you have to do (or have done) in your car. An addative for algae will go a long way to making the system that much more maintenance un-intensive.

If you have a leak, you need to fix it. But like I said above, take your time and do it right and you shouldn't have a leak. Read up on some threads and learn from others mistakes, and ask questions. We will help you out. A few tips to avoid leaks right off the bat are : 1) Don't overtighten parts, you may crack them if you aren't carefull; 2) Use teflon tape or pipe thread compound for thread together parts to prevent leaks; 3) Leak test with the parts not installed in the case and on the CPU/North Bridge/GPU so that it is easier to fix any leaks; 4) If you are unsure of something, ask questionsl.

TehQuick said:
Nice thread... almost got myself a WC setup from DanderDan... thx for pimpage!

The only problem I have is with figuring out the ID/OD thingies. Barbs/fittins designed for 1/2 OD wont go well with 3/8ID - 1/2 OD tubing right?

One more question: do you need sealants and what are those? where do you get those?
Click to expand...

3/8" ID will fit over 1/2" OD fittings, and are a better match than 3/8" ID hose and 3/8" OD fittings. Why? Because 1/2" OD fittings (barbs) have a 3/8" ID and won't restrict flow. A 3/8" OD fitting has closer to 1/4" ID.

Two sealants for threaded fittings are teflon tape (the most popular), and pipe thread compound (a little messy if you aren't carefull, it's a paste). Both can be found at home improvement or plumbing supply stores.
 
PsycoGeek said:
... Use teflon tape or pipe thread compound for thread together parts to prevent leaks;

3/8" ID will fit over 1/2" OD fittings, and are a better match than 3/8" ID hose and 3/8" OD fittings. Why? Because 1/2" OD fittings (barbs) have a 3/8" ID and won't restrict flow. A 3/8" OD fitting has closer to 1/4" ID.
Click to expand...

Thanks for advice.. 2 more questions: do u apply teflon tape after clamping down pipes or before that? In other words. do u put it on top, where the fitting and tube meet, or inside, on fitting itself and then put tube on top of it?

Another question: what about 1/2" ID tubing? is it better for 1/2" OD fittings or not really? I mean it'd be closer match... but I am not sure, so I am asking :D
 
TehQuick said:
Thanks for advice.. 2 more questions: do u apply teflon tape after clamping down pipes or before that? In other words. do u put it on top, where the fitting and tube meet, or inside, on fitting itself and then put tube on top of it?

Another question: what about 1/2" ID tubing? is it better for 1/2" OD fittings or not really? I mean it'd be closer match... but I am not sure, so I am asking :D
Click to expand...


You want to apply the tape on the threads of the fitting and then attach. That will ensure a good seal on the threads.


Tubing: Honestly, it probably won't matter. If you are really worried about it, you can do what PsyGeek said and get slightly larger fittings, ones with the same ID as the ID of your tubing. As long as the walls of the fitting aren't too thick, then you should be able to fit the tubing over it (with a bit of work). But, 1/2" OD fittings will work just fine with 1/2" ID tubing. As long as your pump has more than like... 1/2 foot of head, then you'll be fine.
 
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