Unsettling EULA for Quake Live using PunkBuster

[Drexion]

It's simple, using the argument that you would only care about people looking through your machine is if you have something to hide (porn, warez etc) is so completely stupid that anyone using it should really just be instantly banned from the forum for being such an irritating fool.

That's not the (entire) argument. But expecting to play a popular online game without having some sort of AC built in nowadays is even more foolish. As has been mentioned before in this thread, nearly every single major multiplayer game ships with an AC of some sort, and a similar EULA to that of punkbuster's.
So you don't play any multiplayer games from id, valve, blizzard, EA etc ? Cause they all use very similar AC software, and all their EULAs have those same/similar lines in it.

I have plenty of perfectly legal things on my PC which I don't want people to read, full stop, it's my gaming rig, my work rig, it's actually a security risk for me since I have work on my machine for my job, I have personal information I don't want people to be able to read, not to mention media stored on my PC which I am legally bound by NDA not to make available to other people, if any of that could be read at any time then that is a MASSIVE security problem.

The contents of your hard disk are your problem to secure. Millions of gamers should not have to put up with the lack of AC software because of your own individual issues.
That's like saying games should only be 1GB in size max because Frostex doesn't have free hard drive space. Well guess what, its your job to work around the requirements of games, not the other way around.

...they're asking you to sign away your right to be able to protect your own data.

That's an exaggerated way of putting it, but you are requesting a service (to play multiplayer) and if you do not want to meet the terms associated with that service then don't partake in it. Like almost any other service provided by any other company anywhere else.

Many of the games I play want to install punkbuster and I refuse everytime and if I can't play online without using it then I won't play online.

That's fine, everyone has their own personal boycotts. I don't buy/install games with Starforce.

If after some investigation it turns out WAR uses some form of intergrated punkbuster which expects me to agree to allow that kind of privacy vilolation then i'll end my sub and uninstall it.

Reading a bit on the official warhammer website, it seems that PB is integrated into the WAR exe itself, which is why it does not appear as a different process.

If this thread proves anything, its that people don't ever bother reading the EULA/TOS etc cause those terms have been in multiplayer games for YEARS - and most PC gamers DO know that AC is included with multiplayer games and DO know that it scans their rig. Hell you can't join a Valve game server without it telling you that there is an active AC running, in a message in the middle of the screen.

They don't care about your hidden folder of uber-super-secret-media-NDA-work-related stuff. They just want to catch/ban as many cheaters as possible.

 

[Drexion]

You can call it tin-foil wearing or whatever ..

Look, if this sort of AC software behaviour popped up overnight from nowhere, I'd probably be looking at it closer to your point of view. But fact is AC software has been that way for a decade now, evolving into what it is today based upon the needs of and requests of PC Gamers. This did not just "happen overnight", hence the tin foil comments.

There is no conspiracy here. AC clients are not only requested by gamers for multiplayer games, they are NEEDED. Quite a few games have died off in the past due to lack of proper AC software or lack of updates to the AC software. It needs to be intrusive to do its job, it needs to be closed source to remain as unexploitable as possible, it needs to be included with multiplayer games which hope for long term success, it needs to be the way it is now because of more than a decade of feedback from gamers, developers, and server administrators.

I am not defending or supporting a specific AC, or saying one is better than the other. In a perfect world we would not need any kind of AC whatsoever, but there is no such thing as a perfect world. I am defending the right for AC software to be intrusive, and for it to keep doing what it does best - expose, bust and ban cheaters.

This is not an invasion of privacy in any way - as it specifically asks you for permission to do what it does, states exactly what it does and in no way tries to hide its behaviour. Nearly every PC gamer who plays multiplayer games knows that AC software scans your stuff, even casual gamers are aware of it.

I have seen firsthand how effective AC clients can be in the competitive CS community, it may not be instant but eventually the vast majority of cheaters get busted, even those using rare pay-for cheats with unique signatures.

Oh and you can keep thinking that we don't know what Warden AC, VAC, PB and other anti-cheats do.

I never said that, we know what they do - I said we don't know how they operate internally, and that only their existing programmers know that - specifically because in the past they have been bypassed and 'workaround-ed'.

What exactly is your specific beef with Quake Live ? That its AC scans your entire HD instead of the game folder only ? Well good! The more effective the better. (some hacks for some games work by forcing the entire game plus the hack into a virtual ram drive, modifying the hack in memory, thus bypassing the "lets only scan this folder" part of the AC)

 

[criccio]

I have a feel that some people think that Punkbuster employees are sitting around a computer in their offices reading people private Word doc's and laughing.

 

[Joe Average]

Question. What do you keep on your gaming PC that is so important that it not be found? seriously.

I have games, some short porn clips and some music. Shit, if I get to play a game I like, feel free to go through my porn clips, if you set some of them on replay it's almost like one continuous movie.

This is exactly the kind of attitude we should all be scared of.

"As long as I get what I want, I don't care what you do..."

Until a time comes when you do care, but oops, you already gave away the ability to say "yes" or "no" anymore.

The only thing an AC client should do is scan for items related specifically to the game in operation at the time the AC client should be running - and that should ONLY be when the game is executed, not constantly, and certainly not a 100% full blown scan of every single file on a machine. It should (and I'd be ok with it) scanning for given known "cheats" and "hacks" that would be either memory resident or making calls into a given dll associated with the game.

I simply won't tolerate anything that says "hey, buddy, you go play your game and while you're being mindlessly blissfully ignorant, we're gonna scan everything on your PC just to make sure you're not trying to get something over on us..."

Which is exactly what it - meaning the AC client in question - does.

Oh, and for the person making the big stink about "it's something you agree to," you apparently didn't get what I said (funny, because my whole post was about people not getting it but a few of us do). I said it's that kind of attitude quoted above that causes all of us problems.

I, unlike 99.5% of people here, actually do read the EULAs for all the products I own. Thankfully I'm a fast reader... and if I see something that jumps out like the proverbial sore thumb, poof, fuck that product.

99.5% of the people using software today do not read the EULA and blindly (and rather stupidly) agree to 'em with a simple click because they don't care enough to even give 'em a cursory scan for anything that might catch their eyes.

No, they'd rather click-click-CLICK-DAMMIT to get the game installed and get into that blind blissful state of complete fucking ignorance.

Because that's what they want, much to the chagrin of all of us (the lowly .5%) that know better but can't do anything about it because the majority is nothing but ignorant fools.

 

[damonposey]

If this was pertaining to freedoms about something different, I'd be more adamant about not wanting any rights compromised, however we're talking about video games here. the people who make these aren't government agents sent to destroy you, lol.

 

[Joe Average]

"From the frying pan into the molten pit of lava..."

 

[Drexion]

The only thing an AC client should do is scan for items related specifically to the game in operation at the time the AC client should be running.

At one point, that's exactly what AC software did - but it was too easy to bypass. If the author of the hack KNOWS what/why/when/where the AC is scanning, then the AC has already lost.

"From the frying pan into the molten pit of lava..."

It's real easy to sit back and call us all fools from your keyboard, but it isn't easy offering a solution is it ?
Currently you have
(1) The current state of things: using AC software in its current state, and catching most cheaters or keeping at bay the casual/tempted-to-cheat players - atm multiplayer gaming is quite acceptable for casual or hardcore players, even competitive players. (competitive leagues have their own clients)
or
(2) Use either no AC or a weak watered down non-invasive version of AC, and watch multiplayer gaming become a cesspool of cheating, as has happened to games which didn't update their AC or shipped without one. In that scenario most players leave and don't come back, and the game(s) eventually die.

So which it gonna be ? (don't say "have an admin on each server", because that is impractical for multiple reasons, primary one being budget). Since I like multiplayer gaming and would rather not see it die, I go with (1) until a better solution can is found.

I don't think you realize how bad multiplayer gaming would be if it were not for these AC softwares. Its not the reverse-engineer-hacker-programmer who writes his own private hacks that we care about, its the clueless kids who decide to use whatever hack they find in the google search results that's the major problem, and those are the kids that most AC software catches.

 

[Vermillion]

This is exactly the kind of attitude we should all be scared of.

"As long as I get what I want, I don't care what you do..."

Until a time comes when you do care, but oops, you already gave away the ability to say "yes" or "no" anymore.

The only thing an AC client should do is scan for items related specifically to the game in operation at the time the AC client should be running - and that should ONLY be when the game is executed, not constantly, and certainly not a 100% full blown scan of every single file on a machine. It should (and I'd be ok with it) scanning for given known "cheats" and "hacks" that would be either memory resident or making calls into a given dll associated with the game.

I simply won't tolerate anything that says "hey, buddy, you go play your game and while you're being mindlessly blissfully ignorant, we're gonna scan everything on your PC just to make sure you're not trying to get something over on us..."

Which is exactly what it - meaning the AC client in question - does.

Oh, and for the person making the big stink about "it's something you agree to," you apparently didn't get what I said (funny, because my whole post was about people not getting it but a few of us do). I said it's that kind of attitude quoted above that causes all of us problems.

I, unlike 99.5% of people here, actually do read the EULAs for all the products I own. Thankfully I'm a fast reader... and if I see something that jumps out like the proverbial sore thumb, poof, fuck that product.

99.5% of the people using software today do not read the EULA and blindly (and rather stupidly) agree to 'em with a simple click because they don't care enough to even give 'em a cursory scan for anything that might catch their eyes.

No, they'd rather click-click-CLICK-DAMMIT to get the game installed and get into that blind blissful state of complete fucking ignorance.

Because that's what they want, much to the chagrin of all of us (the lowly .5%) that know better but can't do anything about it because the majority is nothing but ignorant fools.

This ^^^ and I do read all my EULA's especially games nowadays with all the shady shit they try to install.

 

[acarlton]

That's pretty much why I hate online multiplayer. You really have to decide which thing you don't like least, the cheaters, or the software to catch the cheaters. I really hate both, so I rarely play online. If you want to see what multiplayer is like without anticheat programs, go to Battlenets open site. Everyone is simply godlike, and I doubt they got that way by playing fair.

 

[Syndicated_Death]

My solution is a computer for gaming and another computer for everything else. solves most issues like that. the 2 are completely separate so there is no private info my AC progs have access to.

 

[acarlton]

Oh Sure, lets just stoke my HARDWARE ADDICTION. I've built computers for every other occasion, but I hadn't thought of this one. Thanks a lot!

 

[Starcrossed]

Punkbuster took over my computer and killed my family, last night.

 

[speedy523]

Personally i agree with both Drexion and Joe Average, as well as others in this argument. Yes, Punk Buster and well as other AC systems are intrusive, but as Drexion and others have already said, that's their nature, that's how they get their job done. Now, i also do agree with Joe Average and others, that yes, i just dont want to just say fuck it, as that may lead me to do it for other things, and then maybe someday, it may lead to the suppression of my rights, but for AC systems, i really dont think thats a concern for my rights as i really dont think they're gonna spend the time to go through millions of files, of millions of users just to find some kidi porn or illegal files, as that will do nothing but hurt them.

And as others have also said, no matter what game you take, there's a very high chance it has AC built it, or it is installed without your knowing, yet you still play it because you enjoy it. Now i do understand there are some [AC] that by there very nature are skeptical and many will avoid them, and people will understand that, but as for all the people posting in this thread saying i have never, or never will from now on play a game with AC, that's bs as others have already said because, as the same with DRM, these things will only get more and more restrictive and intrusive as time goes on....

And @ Frostex, Punk Buster isnt a process, its a service, so im pretty sure if you flip that tab in Task Manager you will very well see two services, PnkBstr A and PnkBstr B running

 

[Joe Average]

And @ Frostex, Punk Buster isnt a process, its a service, so im pretty sure if you flip that tab in Task Manager you will very well see two services, PnkBstr A and PnkBstr B running

Which is another reason I can't stand it and won't tolerate it: those services shouldn't be services at all, they should be apps that are called up for whenever the game(s) they're tied with are in operation. If the game isn't running, neither should Punkbuster, period.

 

[speedy523]

Which is another reason I can't stand it and won't tolerate it: those services shouldn't be services at all, they should be apps that are called up for whenever the game(s) they're tied with are in operation. If the game isn't running, neither should Punkbuster, period.

that is something im willing to agree with.

When someone here posted that Punk Buster runs in the background i immediately checked my processes and services, and to my surprise it was there, and running. I stopped it right then, and even though im not scared of it slowing down my computer or some random person going through my files, i do think they are crossing the line with an AC that runs 24/7, even though its not as great as others.

Just got to remember to close that damn service whenever i start windows....

 

[Techx]

the best thing about this thread is the fact that i had NO IDEA just how HUGE summer glau's tits were.. damn i think im in love

 

[criccio]

the best thing about this thread is the fact that i had NO IDEA just how HUGE summer glau's tits were.. damn i think im in love

You're welcome.

 

[jimmyb]

Its really funny, seeing someone like Frostex whine about punkbuster in this thread and call it the worst thing ever and say he's blacklisting it - then I go in another thread and see him posting screenshots of himself playing WAR - a game which uses punkbuster.

Ok, well I suppose if Frostex is doing it we definitely all are.

 

[jonniefive]

So I guess that if you had to drive naked to own a bmw, you'd be ok with that?

I all I had to do was drive naked to get a bimmer, then yes! I'd have to reconsider in the winter though.....

 

[Drexion]

Ok, well I suppose if Frostex is doing it we definitely all are.

Stop being naive. You trying to tell me there's people in this thread who have never played a single multiplayer game from id or valve or blizzard or ea or ubisoft, or any of the other popular multiplayer fps, rpg, rts or mmo games ? riiiiight.

Just accept that AC software does provide a better gaming environment and is needed in this day and age. Anyone that argues that ACs shouldn't exist or shouldn't need to scan x,y, or z probably doesn't care about multiplayer gaming or doesn't realize what a cesspool it would become. Of course, like you I would prefer if we did live in a world where it wasn't needed, but that's a fantasy world.

they should be called up for whenever the game(s) they're tied with are in operation.

Yep, luckily most AC software still works like this. If there were more competition in the AC marketplace, PB probably would have to improve their implementation. The clients in competitive leagues work like this as well.

 

[rtol]

Is there a way to prevent the punkbuster services from autostarting with windows, and just manually start them when you want to play Quakelive? I turned them to manual in services.msc, but they still autostarted when I rebooted my machine, and changed themselves back to automatic.

 

[ScretHate]

Thanks for making this thread. I uninstalled QL and PB immediately after reading it. I don't allow spyware of any kind on my computer. No one should subject themselves to this kind of intrusion of privacy just to play a game.

 

[criccio]

If you read through the whole thread, then you should be uninstalling all of you're games. (more or less)

 

[Azureth]

People in this thread:

 

[phide]

You in this thread:

Hey -- just kidding!

 

[jimmyb]

Stop being naive. You trying to tell me there's people in this thread who have never played a single multiplayer game from id or valve or blizzard or ea or ubisoft, or any of the other popular multiplayer fps, rpg, rts or mmo games ?

I'm not trying to tell you that at all.

I'm trying to tell you that the statement, "all the people in this thread with this position, are people who play wow, starcraft, cs:s, diablo, L4D, battlefield, TF2 etc etc with no problem", is something you can't possibly know.

Naivety would be believing such an absurd claim with no evidence.

 

[Drexion]

I'm not trying to tell you that at all.

Yes you are. This is [H] - the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that there are multiplayer virgins in this thread, not on me to prove that people here have played multiplayer games before. And besides - that's not even the issue at hand, that's just you nitpicking an analogy - its a fucking analogy for christ sakes.

I'm trying to tell you that the statement, "all the people in this thread with this position, are people who play wow, starcraft, cs:s, diablo, L4D, battlefield, TF2 etc etc with no problem", is something you can't possibly know.

And I'm telling you this is the fucking [H] Gaming Forum and that statement has a higher chance of being true than not true. Its a friggin analogy - who cares - you're just avoiding the actual topic.

It doesn't change the fact that all the people whining about Quake Live are the exact same people who probably don't realise that their current/favourite multiplayer games all do the exact same thing, and have been doing so for the past decade. Frostex being example numero uno.

Naivety would be believing such an absurd claim with no evidence.

Wow the stupidity is really taking off now. People want to talk about "naivety" instead of discussing the issue. Its been 6 pages of posts so far and not ONCE have you said what your problem with Quake Live or its AC is. I've stuck around in this thread cause it was funny as hell watching all the hypocrisy and silly claims, but arguing against stupidity is stupid itself. You want to argue points for/against ACs ? fine - talking about "naivety" is a stupid waste of time.

Wear your tinfoil hat and sit in your basement, cause the aliens might be reading your mind and stealing your thoughts. The rest of us will be enjoying Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2, and pretty much every single other major multiplayer game out there. Go play FEAR2 multiplayer, I hear it has no AC included, you and the 10 other people who multiplay it will have a blast being safe from big brother.

 

[Azureth]

Yes you are. This is [H] - the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that there are multiplayer virgins in this thread, not on me to prove that people here have played multiplayer games before. And besides - that's not even the issue at hand, that's just you nitpicking an analogy - its a fucking analogy for christ sakes.

And I'm telling you this is the fucking [H] Gaming Forum and that statement has a higher chance of being true than not true. Its a friggin analogy - who cares - you're just avoiding the actual topic.

It doesn't change the fact that all the people whining about Quake Live are the exact same people who probably don't realise that their current/favourite multiplayer games all do the exact same thing, and have been doing so for the past decade. Frostex being example numero uno.

Wow the stupidity is really taking off now. People want to talk about "naivety" instead of discussing the issue. Its been 6 pages of posts so far and not ONCE have you said what your problem with Quake Live or its AC is. I've stuck around in this thread cause it was funny as hell watching all the hypocrisy and silly claims, but arguing against stupidity is stupid itself. You want to argue points for/against ACs ? fine - talking about "naivety" is a stupid waste of time.

Wear your tinfoil hat and sit in your basement, cause the aliens might be reading your mind and stealing your thoughts. The rest of us will be enjoying Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2, and pretty much every single other major multiplayer game out there. Go play FEAR2 multiplayer, I hear it has no AC included, you and the 10 other people who multiplay it will have a blast being safe from big brother.

QFTMFT!!!!

 

[jimmyb]

Yes you are. This is [H] - the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that there are multiplayer virgins in this thread, not on me to prove that people here have played multiplayer games before. And besides - that's not even the issue at hand, that's just you nitpicking an analogy - its a fucking analogy for christ sakes.

It wasn't an analogy. An analogy is a cognitive concept in which information regarding one subject is transferred to another, typically in the hope of clarifying the latter subject. You made a specific claim regarding the gaming habits of all the objecting posters in this thread; that is not an analogy. Perhaps you meant to say it was a gross exaggeration that you don't have any evidence to support.

Additionally, as outrageous as that claim was by itself, you further go on to say that each one these objecting posters has no problem with it. Is it inconceivable to you that they might play them, and also have a problem with the AC policy? My roommate for example, plays Quake Live, and at the same time has a problem with the privacy sacrifices he has to make to play it. In his case the fun factor overrides his desire to maintain privacy, but nonetheless he still views it as a problem.

In your latest post, you implicitly assert that all multiplayer games have intrusive AC code in them:

the onus is on YOU to provide evidence that there are multiplayer virgins in this thread, not on me to prove that people here have played multiplayer games before.

I would guess that most here have played a multiplayer game, and not once have I suggested otherwise. What I am saying, is that you can't possibly know that everyone here has played a multiplayer game with intrusive AC software.

Finally, just on a personal note, I only play Civ4 online which, IIRC, doesn't have any AC software. This fact alone, makes your statement incorrect: not "all" the objectors play games with forced AC software.

I won't object to accusations of me wearing a tinfoil hat, but I will to ostensibly false statements.

 

[YeuEmMaiMai]

lol there are always idiots that say "well it's OK" "It dosen't bother me" etc......lol want to play quake 3? load it up and run it off of the original CD

 

[Joe Average]

Funny, because I just installed Q3 last night again, and when it came to that point where it asked if I wanted to install PunkBuster when I applied the 1.32 patch I just laughed and clicked "No" and moved on.

Lemme tell ya, Q3 runs fast as fuck off a RAMdisk, I assure you. First one on the levels, each and every single time.

(with nary a trace of any AC bullshit)

Go figure. Lucky me as it's the only game I even play...

 

[Drexion]

I only play Civ4 online

So you only play one game online, and you don't play any other multiplayer games - so what experience exactly is it you have that you can impart your judgment/wisdom on gamers who want AC in their multiplayer games ?
I'm sorry, but I would rather game developers of multiplayer games listen to people who actually play multiplayer games than to someone who doesn't. Maybe you should spend a few years of playing a variety of multiplayer games like most other people here and see for yourself the effects of AC (or lack of) (or a good one) before imparting your judgment upon them.

In your latest post, you implicitly assert that all multiplayer games have intrusive AC code in them:

In all my posts I specifically state that most if not all the popular/top multiplayer games use AC of some sort. The one time I forgot to include the word popular/top/big/major you nitpick like a grammar nazi.

It wasn't an analogy. An analogy is a ...

And EXACTLY as I stated in my last post, more off topic nonsense from you. If you want to argue over "naivety", or the definition of "analogy", or be a grammar nazi, etc go right ahead, I'm not wasting my time on stupid waste-of-time stuff. If this were [L]imp forums it might be an exaggeration, but its not. It's [H]ard forums - so its closer to the truth than it isn't.

My roommate for example, plays Quake Live, and at the same time has a problem with the privacy sacrifices he has to make to play it.

So your roommate never played WoW ? or any of Blizzards/Valve's/id's games ? Why is he bringing up the issue now ? I would explain to your roommate that it is merely an anti cheat, it does nothing different from what any other AC does, it is not an invasion of privacy as they clearly ask for permission to scan his HD, and chances are the other multiplayer games he has played before have used the exact same or more intrusive methods to scan for cheats, but he didn't realise it.

Finally, just on a personal note, I only play Civ4 online which, IIRC, doesn't have any AC software. This fact alone, makes your statement incorrect

No, as Civ4 today isn't a popular multiplayer game relatively speaking. Sure its a great game, but in terms of numbers it isn't anywhere near the top. Cheating is more of a problem in the popular multiplayer games ("popular" meaning in terms of number of users and nothing more).

What's happening here is that Quake Live is an easy target for you and others. It's still in beta, it hasn't been released and its number of users is still small. Hence there's few who will defend it, thus making it an easy target for the conspiracy theorists.

Try this: why don't you go on the CS forums, or WoW forums, or CS:S forums, or L4D forums, or TF2 forums, or Diablo2 forums etc (or hell any other popular multiplayer game forums) and post about their AC privacy there - see how fast you will get your ass laughed out of there and shown the door. Believe it or not, not only do multiplayer gamers want AC bundled in their games, they want it to be aggressive, intrusive, and kicking ass and taking names and busting/catching/exposing and banning cheating scum.
Hell 2 threads down right now there is a post complaining that Monolith didn't release an AC for FEAR2 yet. pffff

What is your better solution to AC software? I mean, all this bashing you should have a better, more elegant, and probably miraculous magical solution you could bestow upon us ? Or maybe you won't because you only play single player games bar one.

 

[jimmyb]

[...] all the people in this thread with this position, are people who play wow, starcraft, cs:s, diablo, L4D, battlefield, TF2 etc etc with no problem.

[...] I only play Civ4 online which, IIRC, doesn't have any AC software. This fact alone, makes your statement incorrect

No, as Civ4 today isn't a popular multiplayer game relatively speaking.

Wow. I have no idea how you can reconcile your statement "all the people [...] play wow, starcraft [...]", with my statement "I only play Civ4 online".

I am certain you know what the word "all" means. I'm guessing you're just choosing to ignore it.

Whether or not Civ4 is popular or not is irrelevant to whether all the people in this thread play Wow, etc. I don't play those games. I just told you. Your statement is false.

 

[Drexion]

All, most - here we go again with the grammar correction.

I don't play those games.

Yes, though I should have realized this beforehand, seeing as to how clueless you are about the necessity and/or behaviour of AC software for multiplayer games.

*Most* people.......there you go. Most people.
Are you happy now ? Can you move on to a more valid point instead of harping on and on about one sentence from 4 pages ago in this thread ? Or better yet post your alternative solution to AC for multiplayer games.

But then again since you don't play any multiplayer games that will only lessen the value of your input. No offense, but as stated earlier - I would prefer game developers of multiplayer games listen to people who actually play multiplayer games than to someone who doesn't.

And I think its safe to say that multiplayer gamers would prefer that multiplayer games ship with a capable AC rather than without it.

Anyone that argues that AC software should not be included with popular multiplayer games without at least providing a suitable alternate solution, is clueless.

 

[Azureth]

I want to know what people who aren't into these new popular online games are doing on a primarily PC gaming message board.

I don't like PB either, but that's just because it never updates and PnkBster B never works

 

[eeeeeeeeeeeeee]

I personally would prefer every one of my opponents to use an AimBot rather than have to use Punkbuster. Its only a game, and if someone else wants to use a piece of software for their jollies, great for them.

What a shitty piece of software!

 

[jimmyb]

Anyone that argues that AC software should not be included with popular multiplayer games without at least providing a suitable alternate solution, is clueless.

Why not make AC software optional? If you're running it you can join AC protected games; if you're not, then you can just join the regular ones.

This seems to be a solution which satisfies both parties. And if my memory serves me some games have this option.

 

[Vashypooh]

Why not make AC software optional? If you're running it you can join AC protected games; if you're not, then you can just join the regular ones.

This seems to be a solution which satisfies both parties. And if my memory serves me some games have this option.

You mean like almost every other punk buster game out there? =/

 

[f1y]

Frostex...it's built into the game

http://herald.warhammeronline.com/warherald/NewsArticle.war?id=153

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PunkBuster

guess you'll be canceling that sub now..

Steam does this same shit. They use it to see what hardware you're running, and to grab error log files and shit.. just helps development teams. At the very worst to veiw browser history for in-game ads.

 

[speedy523]

guess you'll be canceling that sub now..

Steam does this same shit. They use it to see what hardware you're running, and to grab error log files and shit.. just helps development teams. At the very worst to veiw browser history for in-game ads.

yes Steam does and they openly say it

http://storefront.steampowered.com/Steam/Marketing/message/2269/

Valve says that since their Hardware Monitor automatically scans and sends back the data, they're upgrading they're TF2 dev machines to ones most people are using to development the games better for the user.

Now i know it isn't PnkBstr, but the big agruement against it is that it scans and sends back data without the user knowing and how that can potentially hurt you.

Well here's Valve saying that they do the same thing, and they're now using the info you guys think is harmful to help developmental for future patches and games to make them more enjoyable on your machine. Hardly suprressimng your rights and using your information harmfully.