Verizon Seeks Injunctions Against Strikers

xDezor said:
Alright what about Japan? Or are they 3rd world in your eyes? :rolleyes:
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You can roll your eyes but we beat them too. Took me a while to find 2011 figures but we rank #1 above all others at this point in 2011.

http://www.gaebler.com/Productivity-and-Vacation-Comparisons-by-Country.htm
.....The good news is that the U.S. still leads the industrialized world in productivity. We are ranked first among the Group of Eight (G8) nations, which are considered the most powerful countries in the world. Other G8 members include Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom, Canada, Russia and France. France is #2 in productivity.

Interestingly, the French have achieved their #2 status while also instituting a new 35-hour work week. Compare that statistic to this one: The U.S. was one of the few countries in which work hours actually grew—and they're expected to continue to increase.
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And yet people still believe the BS that there's this large swath of lazy people and those who work are in the minority.,,,morons. We work more hours than all others yet our wages are going down, we have the least amount of vacation days, Once again you can blame your neighbor but he/she isn't writing your pay check.

Don't you think it's peculiar that the TV tells you your lazy while actual numbers say the complete opposite? Work harder folks you'll get the carrot.........eventually just one more lap.
 
Valshistixol said:
Should be pretty damn easy with how much you guys talk about the high unemployment rate. :rolleyes: OH WAIT...
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If you are skilled in a industry that actually needs workers no it isnt hard at all.

If you refuse to get new skills and just get mad at people, then yeah, its probably frustrating.
 
Cali3350 said:
If you are skilled in a industry that actually needs workers no it isnt hard at all.

If you refuse to get new skills and just get mad at people, then yeah, its probably frustrating.
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So lemme get this straight. First there has to be enough jobs for everyone and apparently there isn't for close to 10% of the population, then you need to have a particular set of skills for an industry that needs workers, then you just need to live where they are hiring, and all of that without any source of income aside from unemployment.
 
Valshistixol said:
So lemme get this straight. First there has to be enough jobs for everyone and apparently there isn't for close to 10% of the population
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Nope. Wrong right there. 10% of the population is unemployed because they arent skilled. Business are downright clamoring for skilled workers, fighting tooth and nail for them right now. Many businesses will flat out tell you their aren't enough laberers in the US right now for anything that isnt the most basic job.
 
Cali3350 said:
If you are skilled in a industry that actually needs workers no it isnt hard at all.

If you refuse to get new skills and just get mad at people, then yeah, its probably frustrating.
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I do agree with what you're saying mostly but even then nothing is guaranteed, I'm lucky to be an industry (business software development) that even with offshoring does have decent opportunities but wages have tremendous downward pressure on them. I've been doing this 20 years and at 43 it isn't just a simple matter of building new skills and 20 years of experience. You act as though all that matters is going with the flow of demand but it's a HELL of a lot harder than that.
 
Cali3350 said:
Nope. Wrong right there. 10% of the population is unemployed because they arent skilled. Business are downright clamoring for skilled workers, fighting tooth and nail for them right now. Many businesses will flat out tell you their aren't enough laberers in the US right now for anything that isnt the most basic job.
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Get the government to send them to school, it would help the country as a whole.
 
Cali3350 said:
Nope. Wrong right there. 10% of the population is unemployed because they arent skilled. Business are downright clamoring for skilled workers, fighting tooth and nail for them right now. Many businesses will flat out tell you their aren't enough laberers in the US right now for anything that isnt the most basic job.
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Yes and no. There's some truth to this, indeed the place where I work is looking for H1Bs for people at my job grade and a notch or two below, and the pay is actually pretty decent for an H1B and skills in this economy.

But the truth of the matter is that companies simply don't want as much skilled labor here because it costs them more here. Period. They have to have some here if they do businesses here but they often prefer to go offshore for cost reasons.
 
I don't know, it's a mix of everything. I've had a job posting out for 3 months now and barely have anyone qualified applying.

And even those who have the qualifications can't even pass our basic literacy/math tests. We have 2 Wonderlic tests we require people to pass. I would say they're around 6th-8th grade math/logic questions. And yet we have a nearly 50%+ fail rate, even using a goddamn calculator.
 
Valshistixol said:
Get the government to send them to school, it would help the country as a whole.
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QFT

Use the goverments resources effectively.

if a job gets outsourced or made obsolete, assist the displaced workers in getting placed in areas of the ecomomy that are needing the workers. I don't want a free ride, I want a hand back into the job market if I am laid off.

much of the "stimulus" money was wasted on boondoggles and outright pork. Its disheartening to think how much better that money could have been spent. Job training centers, student aid packages aimed at segments of the economy we want to encourage, FEDERAL tax credits to business that hire displaced workers with the proper skills, and keep them employed, taking hard looks at the outsourcing of jobs by companies that recieve Federal contracts.

I am sure there are many other ways we could have did it better, I came up with a few, and all I am is a troll... :D
 
motomonkey said:
QFT

Use the goverments resources effectively.

if a job gets outsourced or made obsolete, assist the displaced workers in getting placed in areas of the ecomomy that are needing the workers. I don't want a free ride, I want a hand back into the job market if I am laid off.

much of the "stimulus" money was wasted on boondoggles and outright pork. Its disheartening to think how much better that money could have been spent. Job training centers, student aid packages aimed at segments of the economy we want to encourage, FEDERAL tax credits to business that hire displaced workers with the proper skills, and keep them employed, taking hard looks at the outsourcing of jobs by companies that recieve Federal contracts.

I am sure there are many other ways we could have did it better, I came up with a few, and all I am is a troll... :D
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A certain group did everything possible to pick a part the bailout to the point of uselessness.

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

-- Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), in an interview with the National Journal, describing his goal in retaking the Senate.
 
piscian18 said:
A certain group did everything possible to pick a part the bailout to the point of uselessness.

"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."

-- Senate minority leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), in an interview with the National Journal, describing his goal in retaking the Senate.
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:rolleyes:

Do us a favor and stay in Soapbox.
 
piscian18 said:
Cable guy never showed up last week to install another outlet in my house. I'm an employee and my company uses lowest bid non-union sub-contractors for installs. They don't give a shit that I'm an employee since no one holds them accountable. You're argument is invalid.
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The cable contractor should be fired. How is that relevant to the fact that I got no service because the guy failed to perform his job? You see a contractor can be fired, a union worker can't be for failing to perform his duties.
 
Crosshairs said:
He should be fired because he left without installing your FIOS?

Would you feel the same way if it turned out he got a phone call while parked in front of your house that his wife had just been in a car accident?

Until you know why he left, saying he should be fired sounds a bit extreme.....
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Irrelevant. If he had an emergency like that he should have sent someone else to do the job - had the whole day to do it.
 
Crosshairs said:
The sheer irony of his post is that its attitudes like his that necessitated the forming of unions in the first place .
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SO what you are saying is that unions were formed because people did not want to be paid for performance? Did not want to be judged based on the work they do?

How would anyone support unions then?
 
heatlesssun said:
Yeah, but Verizon as a company will never get there. The company will get bigger, charge customers more for less, give big payouts out the top, put cheap labor in their growing business and put the unions out. The rich will just get richer and richer and average working people will get stuck with low paying, low benefit jobs, and higher prices as profits grow beyond imagination.
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Verizon is owned by its shareholders. Ultimately, if the unions try to sink the company, the company will spin off the wireline business and let it go bankrupt. Then it could buy the assets out of bankruptcy. No unions, no retirement obligations, no nothing.
 
What I'm finding here as an interesting situation. The right is clamoring that Obama bad, economy bad because Obama is a heavy socialist out to DESTROY business and that businesses are simply scared to hire workers because well you know, they don't know what the future will bring. Apparently Obama has also taken away the physic powers of business to predict the future.

So in order to stimulate the economy no, can't raise taxes and we have to cut regulations cause clean air and water are job killers.

But wait, we have high unemployment because not because there's a lack of jobs but skilled workers for the positions and that's why are need to cut taxes and regulations on businesses? Not saying that won't help businesses but how will that help unemployed people?
 
bezant said:
How about an engineer...
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So you want Master's or PhD holders to install your FIOS? And you want them to do this for $45,000 per year?



Anyone else laughing at this bullshit this guy is posting yet?
 
heatlesssun said:
But wait, we have high unemployment because not because there's a lack of jobs but skilled workers for the positions and that's why are need to cut taxes and regulations on businesses? Not saying that won't help businesses but how will that help unemployed people?
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Don't forget to that, according to bezant, :

electricians are unskilled workers
before one is qualified to install phone lines one must earn a Master's or Doctorate in engineering
engineers should install phone lines for $4000 per month (pre-taxes) while servicing their $1000+ monthly education loan, food, rent, and apparently their own medical care

after all the infrastructure is built these 30 million engineers should then retrain into a new field

picture clear yet?
 
bezant said:
The cable contractor should be fired. How is that relevant to the fact that I got no service because the guy failed to perform his job? You see a contractor can be fired, a union worker can't be for failing to perform his duties.
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You're presenting the case that union works are shitty and don't do a good job because they can't be fired which is untrue.

sub-contractors are just as likely to do shitty jobs because they're not being paid well and the company doesn't give a shit and won't bother to fire them because a subcontractor is literally half the cost of an actual employee when you factor in healthcare and other benefits.
 
bezant said:
SO what you are saying is that unions were formed because people did not want to be paid for performance? Did not want to be judged based on the work they do?

How would anyone support unions then?
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no, what I'm saying is you are talking about firing someone because you didn't get the Disney channel when you were promised......the fact that your own self entitlement is cause enough in your mind for you to want someone fired is the very reason unions were formed...


Also,how you managed to twist what I said into what you wrote is beyond normal comprehension.
 
mope54 said:
So you want Master's or PhD holders to install your FIOS? And you want them to do this for $45,000 per year?



Anyone else laughing at this bullshit this guy is posting yet?
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No, he didnt say that at all. he said the people that install FIOS dont need degrees, but shouldnt be paid at 45k. The people that do have degrees shouldnt install FIOS, they can do better. How did you possibly not get that.
 
heatlesssun said:
What I'm finding here as an interesting situation. The right is clamoring that Obama bad, economy bad because Obama is a heavy socialist out to DESTROY business and that businesses are simply scared to hire workers because well you know, they don't know what the future will bring. Apparently Obama has also taken away the physic powers of business to predict the future.

So in order to stimulate the economy no, can't raise taxes and we have to cut regulations cause clean air and water are job killers.

But wait, we have high unemployment because not because there's a lack of jobs but skilled workers for the positions and that's why are need to cut taxes and regulations on businesses? Not saying that won't help businesses but how will that help unemployed people?
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The hardcore right are idiots. We desperately need tax increases on certain businesses.
 
Cali3350 said:
The hardcore right are idiots. We desperately need tax increases on certain businesses.
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and, we desperately need to decrease what we spend. the impasse over the spending bill was deadlocked on both sides of the house. the GOP refused to raise taxes, the democrats refused to decrease entitlements. each side was following the lead of the people that elected them, so, where does that get us? about the same place Rome was about 30 years before the collapse of the western empire, cept it is bankers, instead of barbarians at the gates. :rolleyes:
 
Honestly at this point in regards to spending we're like a hardcore drug addict. If you try and go cold turkey, you'll kill the patient. You want to pull $1.6 trillion in spending out of *this* economy?!

Cut the military down by 50% plus, completely rewrite the tax code to a VAT and a much lower, progressive income tax, with $125k/$200k couples exemption, then ramping up to say 30% on income $2M and higher. Legalize drugs and tax the shit out of them, get rid of the DEA. Use the tax money to arrest the people that take drugs AND commit crimes, rather than just those who take drugs. Tons less money spent on prisons.
 
kac77 said:
Which class of people specifically are you talking about? If it's the upper echelon, then I agree. If it's lower and middle class .... well that's just BS.
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I was generalizing, but I see the "entitlement" attitude in the upper and lower - not really in the middle.

Rob94hawk said:
Yes I'm a dope. A dope that watches first hand how coworkers abuse sick time to the fullest extent and how I've seen on more than one occasion staff physically injure a patient and not only keep their job but get promoted.

But according to you I know nothing about unions.........

Oh nice personal attack there. I'd report it but I'm not a whiney biotch like some of the other members on these forums and I have thick skin so I could care less. I could be a self righteous doosh and tell you how much I make but it's irrelevant. I can say that my job is pretty damn awesome. Enjoy.
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Whatever bad situations go on in your workplace aren't created just by having a union. Rotten people will take advantage in any circumstance they are in - union or no. You are a union member. Do you participate in some of these abuses? I'm guessing not, as you are pretty vehement against them.
And yet seeing as you are in the union, and unions corrupt workers, it's funny that your personal situation doesn't support your argument. It's because it's the people, not the union itself.
Maybe your administration and supervisory staff need to grow some, and get on the ball. I'm glad you love your job, but good luck in a place like that.

And your right, you don't need to be a self righteous douche(fixed that for you) and tell me how much you make because it IS irrelevant. I don't know why you feel the need to try and compare incomes. Income is not directly related to union opposition or support.

marshalllaw said:
Wireline is going away and if the company were to continue with the union contract the way it was it would have only speed up the demise of the company. Then where would these employees be? Instead of having jobs where they have to pay something for their benefits they would be out on the street without a job.
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Which is what I hate. A lot of people look out for themselves only, and don't ever think of the other workers, or look at the bigger picture.
I remember seeing a union membership (at the beginning of the recession) stand strong on their pay and benefits in the face of guaranteed layoffs. Instead of an across the board cut with everyone getting to keep working, they voted to keep the status quo (I assume the senior members), and let a large group of the membership get let go. Dumb.
My current company on the other hand, made across the board cuts from the top to the bottom (along with smarter operations/purchasing/etc.) and we have weathered it well without anyone getting unemployed. Smart.
 
Cali3350 said:
The hardcore right are idiots. We desperately need tax increases on certain businesses.
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We don't need new taxes........how about just getting the corporations to pay the tax they already should be? You have companies like GE, Exxon-Mobil, Bank of America, and Boeing to name a few that rake in billions in profits, but pay nothing in federal taxes because of tax benefits they get.
 
Monkey34 said:
My current company on the other hand, made across the board cuts from the top to the bottom (along with smarter operations/purchasing/etc.) and we have weathered it well without anyone getting unemployed. Smart.
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Pretty much the same thing at my job...
My uneducated scumbag communist union brothers and myself have also been on a pay freeze for 3 years ...but we are still employed .:D
 
motomonkey said:
and, we desperately need to decrease what we spend. the impasse over the spending bill was deadlocked on both sides of the house. the GOP refused to raise taxes, the democrats refused to decrease entitlements. each side was following the lead of the people that elected them, so, where does that get us? about the same place Rome was about 30 years before the collapse of the western empire, cept it is bankers, instead of barbarians at the gates. :rolleyes:
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"Entitlements" AKA Social services are not what is throwing us into debt. Sorry man but the main thing we need to decrease spending on is the military... ending the war on drugs here at home wouldn't hurt either. Would also be nice if we closed all these tax loopholes so companies like GE actually had to pay their taxes.
 
Crosshairs said:
no, what I'm saying is you are talking about firing someone because you didn't get the Disney channel when you were promised......the fact that your own self entitlement is cause enough in your mind for you to want someone fired is the very reason unions were formed...
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HAHAHA! You are a COMMIE!!!

My "self entitlement"??? I am the customer! Who do you think ultimately pays that guy's salary? Of course I am entitled to the service I contracted to get! I am paying for it! Do you think you are entitled to your salary as a basic human right?
 
why are you shouting that ridiculous stuff bezant?

for all you know the guy couldn't install it because he didn't have the equipment or who knows what. for all we know you're making the entire scenario up in your head. either way, you illustrated your point and now you're just dragging the thread through the mud.
 
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