Virginia Tech Shootings

apex32 said:
I dont think you understand the complications with something like that. You have 26 thousand people at VaTech. You don't just allow people to carry concealed weapons on college campuses. Its just not something you do and it will never happen.

Although it is a shame that no one atleast tried to put up a fight to the shooter before 32 people faced what seems a certain death
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They might have stopped him if they had been armed.

You are looking at the complications of not permitting CCW on campus… dead bodies.

There is no reason CCW should not be permitted on campus you cannot even buy a handgun until you are 21 so 80% of the students don’t qualify to start with.

One student with a CCW permit and his gun could have stopped this.
 
Very sad, and unfortunate this happened. My prayers go out to all the victims and families. :(

This is just another reason I'm getting a consealed weapons permit. Anyone with a consealed weapon could have stopped this asshat dead in his tracks before many more were killed.
 
Just another point of clarification:
- Law abiding citizens don't use guns to kill people. Exceptions are in self defense where lives are being taken, or your own life is about to be taken.
- Guns don't kill people. Whacked out people with guns kill people.
- If guns were banned, only the criminals would have guns.
- Law abiding citizens with a CCW could prevent crime and deaths.
- Criminals with guns use them for evil.
 
I hate that shit like this is used to justify gun control.

:|

First off, making CCW legal at the campus wouldn't make it the wild wild west. It already is the wild wild west if you didn't notice some random asshole just shot a ton of people cause he was pissed off. The difference being that noone else was armed to counter that.

If even 2 of the students in that department had been armed, this could've been stopped almost as quickly as it started.
 
This event reminds me of a great quote:


...Let me make a short, opening, blanket comment.
There are no good guns. There are no bad guns. Any gun in the hands of a bad man is a bad thing. Any gun in the hands of a decent person is no threat to anybody -- except bad people...
--Charlton Heston
 
dude who the he'll here thinks students should bear arms in school? Thats just stupid because i would have loved to bring my pistol grip Automat Kalashnikov 1947 in my backpack to school. I went to a ghetto ass school, do you think its safe to bear arms?
 
Teknikallysekure said:
I hate that shit like this is used to justify gun control.

:|

First off, making CCW legal at the campus wouldn't make it the wild wild west. It already is the wild wild west if you didn't notice some random asshole just shot a ton of people cause he was pissed off. The difference being that noone else was armed to counter that.

If even 2 of the students in that department had been armed, this could've been stopped almost as quickly as it started.
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VA Tech had outlawed guns and made the campus a “gun free zone”, the schools administration even bragged about stopping a bill in the VA Legislature that would have overridden their rules and allowed carry on campus.

“Gun free zones”, laws, and happy thoughts don’t stop criminals.
 
XLeezardx said:
dude who the he'll here thinks students should bear arms in school? Thats just stupid because i would have loved to bring my pistol grip Automat Kalashnikov 1947 in my backpack to school. I went to a ghetto ass school, do you think its safe to bear arms?
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We are speaking of college for people who are over 21 years of age and can legally have a CCW.
 
XLeezardx said:
dude who the he'll here thinks students should bear arms in school? Thats just stupid because i would have loved to bring my pistol grip Automat Kalashnikov 1947 in my backpack to school. I went to a ghetto ass school, do you think its safe to bear arms?
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:rolleyes:

Been safe doing it for several decades... crime DROPS when people are allowed to carry.
 
Max Mike said:
:rolleyes:

Been safe doing it for several decades... crime DROPS when people are allowed to carry.
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AMEN TO THAT,

With that said, I have a friend who goes there and I couldn't get ahold of him for a few hours, I just heard back from him, thank the Lord!

*Praying for others*
 
These poor kids and their families. This is absolutely terrible. I can't believe this has happened, absolutely terrible. what a horrific event.:( :( :( :(
 
Well, I would have expected this of [H]. :p This thread will get closed soon I'm guessing. Everyone wants to use it for their personal soap box for trying to tear apart the Constitution and ban guns. The second amendment is there for a reason. It was left vague for a reason.
 
w1retap said:
We are speaking of college for people who are over 21 years of age and can legally have a CCW.
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I was talking about College, Im 27 years old (almost 28). I mean im not scared of the smart people with guns, its the stupid ones that cant control their anger.
 
The belief that if someone else had a gun, this would have been avoided is entirely without merit.
 
For the record, CHL holders are more likely to NOT shoot people because they have to have a clean history. In case anyone was thinking it would just make it easier for killers to kill.

The only problem I could see is if people had CHL's and one of them went to shoot this killer at VT, he may have been mistaken as the killer himself and be killed by another CHL holder. Irony at its finest. Both looking to save lives.
 
Where has the budget for school safety gone, I know that alot of schools had to cut having officers in the hallways. Since Columbine shootings, the school shootings will only continue, passing gun bills will not stop it, but it will stop once parents become more responsible of their childs actions.

It seems like in every situation of a school shooting, the person or persons are disturbed. They can be discribed as lonely, being bullied at school, the one who seems to be distancing himself or her self from the rest of the classmates. Usually have problems at home, quiet alot of the time, not talkative to many people.

But most people don't get it, they shug it off like nothing is wrong. The police come and say that the shooter had problems like the ones decribed, but other parents or students say, Oh he was the quiet one, of he always had good grades. It mostly takes one small detail to set them off, like a girlfriend dumping him, or dislike against a certain teacher, or dislike being bullied by classmates.

Then they go home and since dad doesn't lock up the gun case, take something out, take some ammo, go to school the same day or even the next day, then excute someone at school.

There needs to be counseling of the person, either by teacher staff or parent. Gun locks must be on the guns or on the case that contains the guns. Students and people around him or her need to be aware that if there is a problem of any Nature, report it to someone. Then the shootings may stop.
 
Max Mike said:
:rolleyes:

Been safe doing it for several decades... crime DROPS when people are allowed to carry.
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I believe teachers and other staff members should carry the pistols, not the students. I wouldnt trust my child to go to school knowing that other students are carrying pistols. If you think we should be able to carry guns to school, then hell, we should be able to bring them on planes.
 
XLeezardx said:
I was talking about College, Im 27 years old (almost 28). I mean im not scared of the smart people with guns, its the stupid ones that cant control their anger.
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CCW holders go through background checks. CCW holders are without doubt the most law abiding group in the country. The first 3 years VA had CCW not one permit holder was arrested for a felony, show me any other group in society that could say that. Do you have the occasional bad apple, sure but nothing compared to the general public.

The rhetoric that CCW somehow will cause more shootings has been proven false time after time.
 
XLeezardx said:
I believe teachers and other staff members should carry the pistols, not the students. I wouldnt trust my child to go to school knowing that other students are carrying pistols. If you think we should be able to carry guns to school, then hell, we should be able to bring them on planes.
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That's a terrible idea. Most teachers are completely in favor of gun control to a horrifying extent. They wouldn't respect the weapon at all, maybe leave it where a child could get at it. In general, never force a gun on someone who doesn't want it. Someone who doesn't respect and know how to handle it is as dangerous as someone with full intentions of misusing it.
 
School officials say gunman killed 32 people on campus of Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg, Va., then himself; 15 wounded.


................


Well at least the guy who killed himself is buring in HELL right now and not walking to the pearly gates of Heaven!!!
 
Man, I wouldn't trust a teacher or college professor with a gun. They are such liberals, they wouldn't even know how to hold a gun properly. They might shoot my child with an accidental discharge.
 
CCW holders or not, its not going to make a difference. I have a few friends with gun license and they arent exactly law abiding citizen. Matter of fact, 9 years ago, i had a friend who got his gun license when he became 21. He was able to purchase alot of guns at the gun shows and many of them didnt even have papers. Private sellers used to sell him unregistered guns as long as he can show them u have a license to carry. Well, he sold a bunch of those guns to bad people in my town. I mean dont get me wrong, i love guns and I would love to carry it in the night clubs and bars, I just dont think its a good idea. Stray bullets would just fly everywhere when hell breaks loose.
 
w1retap said:
Man, I wouldn't trust a teacher or college professor with a gun. They are such liberals, they wouldn't even know how to hold a gun properly. They might shoot my child with an accidental discharge.
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This has to be one of the most unintelligent statements I've ever heard. I feel my intelligence draining rereading it.

:|

I disagree with forcing the firearms on teachers as well. That's just like cops, even with less training(*queue video of DEA agent shooting himself in the foot in front of terrified classroom full of children).

I want my gun in my holster in my pocket. Everyone else that doesn't want one is perfectly free to do as they please.

College students are older than the average warfighter, why the hell shouldn't they be able to carry if they prove their responsibility?
 
XLeezardx said:
I believe teachers and other staff members should carry the pistols, not the students. I wouldnt trust my child to go to school knowing that other students are carrying pistols. If you think we should be able to carry guns to school, then hell, we should be able to bring them on planes.
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Little hint dude. Kids in my high school carried little .22s all the time(7 years ago).

Not that any of the teachers exactly knew about it. Occasionally they get caught, but you're living in a fantasy world if you think this doesn't go on.
 
i'm not sure how self-defense works out there, but in most cases going out to your car to get a gun to deal with that prick would still be defense. You are generally entitled to defend yourself, others, etc. from an clear and present threat
 
XLeezardx said:
CCW holders or not, its not going to make a difference. I have a few friends with gun license and they arent exactly law abiding citizen. Matter of fact, 9 years ago, i had a friend who got his gun license when he became 21. He was able to purchase alot of guns at the gun shows and many of them didnt even have papers. Private sellers used to sell him unregistered guns as long as he can show them u have a license to carry. Well, he sold a bunch of those guns to bad people in my town. I mean dont get me wrong, i love guns and I would love to carry it in the night clubs and bars, I just dont think its a good idea. Stray bullets would just fly everywhere when hell breaks loose.
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One… CCW holders are statically PROVEN far more law abiding than the general public.

Two… criminals don’t obey the law and carry guns illegally anyway.

Three… the number one predictor of who will commit a murder is if someone has been convicted of a previous violent felony… guess what, felons cannot own guns but these previously convicted felons still get the gun and commit murder. Criminals do not follow the law.

Four… that silliness about “stray bullets would just fly everywhere when hell breaks loose” has been used for 20 years as a reason not to all CCW… been proven false every time.
 
Max Mike said:
They might have stopped him if they had been armed.

You are looking at the complications of not permitting CCW on campus… dead bodies.

There is no reason CCW should not be permitted on campus you cannot even buy a handgun until you are 21 so 80% of the students don’t qualify to start with.

One student with a CCW permit and his gun could have stopped this.
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Yea i know, I agree with you man, i was just saying its probably not realistic. Thats all
 
Max Mike said:
One… CCW holders are statically PROVEN far more law abiding than the general public.

Two… criminals don’t obey the law and carry guns illegally anyway.

Three… the number one predictor of who will commit a murder is if someone has been convicted of a previous violent felony… guess what, felons cannot own guns but these previously convicted felons still get the gun and commit murder. Criminals do not follow the law.

Four… that silliness about “stray bullets would just fly everywhere when hell breaks loose” has been used for 20 years as a reason not to all CCW… been proven false every time.
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Very interesting points, but do you think it would totally prevent horrible events like this to happen?
 
I am a senior at VT, luckily I only have classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays so was not on campus for this mornings horrific events. I've had many classes in Norris, I've stayed nights in West AJ. Norris is used primarily for math and engineering so I've been waiting with a titanic knot in my stomach for those names to come out. Some of those people slain could very well have been posters on this forum. My thoughts and sincerest sympathies go out to everyone affected by today's tragedy.

Before this becomes another gun control flame war I'd like to ask the readers to really analyze this situation a bit more. Don't turn this into some political platform on whether or not to make a law. As far as I can tell, congress is 200 miles away and couldn't have done one damn thing to stop today's events. People manage to carry out these types of actions even under the strictest of laws and enforcement.

What startles me more in the inaction of the local law enforcement and the other students and faculty on campus. The police force would have been very wise to evacuate all academic buildings and lock down the campus immediately upon hearing of the first shooting at 7:15. This is before any classes are scheduled. This is especially disgusting considering the fact that last week there were two bomb threats issued that each caused the university to cancel classes in multiple buildings. There had to have been many many people who saw the shooter before he wound up in Norris hall some two hours later as well. Granted, people didn't know what to be looking for because the police failed to get witnesses' descriptions out to the media, but how many times do we have to learn to look out for suspicious activities? Over the course of today I've only become more angry at the situation and how bad it got. I know that there are so many factors that lead to the outcome and I'm only looking at a few of them but it really sickens me to think this can happen at my university. I can only hope lessons learned will prevent this from happening elsewhere, I just wish learning could be retroactive. The cowardice and apathy of man is only overshadowed by the violence born from it.
 
The root problem is evident in any number of posts one could read in this thread. Take a look at the language some people use. A number of posters have made it clear that they would not trust a teacher with a firearm, but they do trust their child with a teacher. Take a long look at that last statement, as that is what is all boils down to. Somehow peoples priorities have become fucked up and they cherish their right to bear arms (amongst other things) more then they do the safety of their children.
 
The problem with having a lot of CCW holders in the mix is that people have trouble thinking when a shooting happens. The reasoning, intelligent part of the brain get pushed aside by the quicker-reacting, instinctive part, and your decisions are heavily influenced by adrenaline and snap judgments that can as easily be dead wrong as right. This is why police officers sometimes shoot people who turn out to have been unarmed - they see behavior they think is suspicious, start to get excited and get into a 'chase mode,' and when they see something that could be threatening, they shoot by default to protect themselves.

Consider then what could happen if there had been CCW holders on this college campus distributed randomly throughout the area of the shooting. The closest one hears shots, and approaches to see what's going on, sees the attacker, fires at and incapacitates him. Another one is coming from slightly farther away, sees the first CCW holder in the vicinity with a drawn weapon, does not notice the weapon of the attacker because he's on the ground. Second holder is very likely to shoot at first holder, who may assume second holder is an accomplice and return fire. Introduce keyed-up police officers after this point and there is still lots of potential for high loss of life. Probably not as high as if the nutcase criminal had gone unopposed, but my point is, don't assume that having more guns distributed among people in the building would be a neat and pretty solution.
 
@Silent.Sin

My thoughts exactly my Sister goes there and she told me about the bomb threat not made more then a few days ago you would have thought that alone would have the school on some sort of alert/lock down, top that off with the convict who killed a security guard I believe this year.

VT and the police department really disappointed me 2 hours they had 2 hours had gone by and this guy was still able to kill more innocent people its such a horrible thing, my heart goes out to all the families and to students like you, its so close to graduation for you guys so sad man, I wish you and all the families the best!!!
 
UrielDagda said:
If anything should be blamed, it should be the Iraq war.
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Are you ******* serious? That's even more out in left field then blaming videogames. Do not be a complete idiot and bring stupid **** like that up. This is a serious issue and saying that makes you look...... screw it, it's not even worth agruing over, your a ******* moron.
 
XLeezardx said:
Very interesting points, but do you think it would totally prevent horrible events like this to happen?
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No but it will curtail them… all it would have taken to stop this is one student, faculty, or worker with a CCW permit and his gun.
 
Draax said:
The root problem is evident in any number of posts one could read in this thread. Take a look at the language some people use. A number of posters have made it clear that they would not trust a teacher with a firearm, but they do trust their child with a teacher. Take a long look at that last statement, as that is what is all boils down to. Somehow peoples priorities have become fucked up and they cherish their right to bear arms (amongst other things) more then they do the safety of their children.
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I think people mistakenly believe that one priority intrinsically equals another.

Personally I don't really trust anything to be one way or another. Accepting this has lead me to live not only much more happily through sad situations, but more apt to deal with unexpected situations as well.

My argument is entirely upon the basis that all people, regardless of their priority should have a reasonable method of self preservation. In modern American society that requirement details a firearm. It's that simple.

The police don't exist to prevent crimes through any other method than a show of force that becomes a pshcological factor pervading upon the community. Other than that they are a reactionary force, and we can't expect them to be there for us at all times when unexpected situations like this arise.

Hence the need for free unmitigated access to firearms for those that can qualify as worthy of the responsibility, because used appropriately that right can very well lead to the other. Unfortunately I do not believe that is what we have currently.

I believe such untolerable crimes as this one are a result of that.

Our society has much more important questions to be asking itself than whether or not firearms or video games were somehow the answer to solving this problem. Whether or not that takes place I believe we all know the answer to already.
 
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