Windows 8.1 Update Tries To Win Back Desktop Diehards

[ManofGod]

Maybe my post wasn't clear I was trying to say that the lack of a Start Menu is clearly a big problem in 8 and that rumor has it that there will be some type of Start Menu or mini-Start Screen in Windows 9. It's obvious that the full screen elements are an issue with a lot of people and this needs to be addressed. However I do think that this issue is way overblown and that the Start Menu isn't nearly the quintessential tool of desktop efficiency that many make it out to be. Otherwise I don't know how anyone would be able to effectively use Windows 8 as a desktop OS.

I use a Microsoft Touch Mouse that supports a number of gestures. I use a two finger flick up to activate the Start Screen, that's just TONS faster than a button click because is can happen anywhere on the screen and on any screen with a multiple monitors setup.

No heatless, I read what you wrote and you were perfectly clear. Unfortunately, sometimes, people read or hear what they want, not what was said or wrote. Also, I agree without you, the issues are often overblown. However, in our industry, you deal with things as they come up, not this stupid, polarizing extremes that some like to bring into the mix.

 

[CreepyUncleGoogle]

I think most people aren't that excited about it. If they don't like it they say, "Meh, do not like," and go on with life. If they do like it they say, "Yup, wurks gud." It's when people log into forums and start trolling each other to make one another upset that it gets kinda funny.

 

[heatlesssun]

No heatless, I read what you wrote and you were perfectly clear. Unfortunately, sometimes, people read or hear what they want, not what was said or wrote.

Thanks and definitely a common occurrence when talking about Windows 8.

Also, I agree without you, the issues are often overblown. However, in our industry, you deal with things as they come up, not this stupid, polarizing extremes that some like to bring into the mix.

I understand that there's a lot of discontent with 8's lack of a built-in non-full screen app launcher and inline search mechanism and from day one I've always said that there needs to be some type of Start Menu like system, non-full screen Start Screen or equivalent. I don't think that there's any need to bring back the same classic Start Menu, I would imagine that will not be the case with 9. Something equivalent but not identical.

Even so, it does seem like many people think that the Start Menu is the main feature in Windows and without it 8 is less usable and that's something I don't think is true. The lack of the Start Menu does make Windows 8 less familiar to many existing Windows users, that much is obvious. But if one can get past this and understand what IS there and how it works, and it's not that complicated, 8.1, particularly with this update, is a perfectly capable and productive desktop OS.

 

[DejaWiz]

1.) The lack of the Start Menu does make Windows 8 less familiar to many existing Windows users, that much is obvious.

2.) But if one can get past this and understand what IS there and how it works, and it's not that complicated,

3.) 8.1, particularly with this update, is a perfectly capable and productive desktop OS.

1.) Obviously.

2.) Old habits die hard. People get proficient with what has been familiar and habitual, especially when it's been done the same way for the last couple of decades, at home and at work. And when we focus on the largest collective group of OS users: corporate environments, it takes a lot of time and money for a company to validate a new OS (if it even passes) then train everyone on things like getting past the lack of a Start Menu, understanding what is there, and how it works. And that's not including the swarm of extra help desk calls that would be inevitable.

3. Nope. The reason Win8 is NOT a perfectly capable and productive DESKTOP OS is because there is a lack of a familiar Start Menu. Too much change all at once for just about anyone that isn't a PC power user and/or enthusiast. Which is, sadly, just about everyone on the face of the Earth.

Once again, you're spouting off your seemingly closed-minded opinions on why Win8 is so easy FOR YOU to use, therefor it should be easy for anyone to use if they can just get past the HUGE CRITICAL FUCK UPS that Microsoft made with Win8 when it comes to a PC whose only means of user input (either by design or by user preference) is through a keyboard and mouse: no day 1 option to boot to desktop and no start button with full start menu (and the plethora of other issues that users have also brought up). Microsoft knows they fucked up and is, thankfully, working to rectify things. Proof positive: they usher in an 8.1 update that, holy shit, lets you boot to the desktop!

Windows 8 was clearly tailored for the primary user input device being a touch screen, maybe compounded with a gimmicky doo-hickey like a stylus (or your gesture-enabled touch mouse), and that is the largest misstep that Microsoft made...they left their largest revenue segment - their enterprise customers, high and dry.

It's an outstanding OS for consumer touch-enabled tablets, laptops, and desktops. I thoroughly enjoy using Win8 on the touchscreen tablets and laptops that I have used. But for a more "classic " type of computer, it still needs some more work before it can be taken seriously as a capable and productive OS.

 

[Climber]

So weird how the fans of windows 8 are closed minded and not the other way around. Windows 8 works 100% fine with a mouse and keyboard setup. The start menu is an outdated and inefficient way to search. Is the new start menu better? No not by a long shot but it is getting better and perhaps windows 9 or a newer service pack will offer additional enhancements to streamline and make it more efficent.

 

[ManofGod]

1.) Obviously.

2.) Old habits die hard. People get proficient with what has been familiar and habitual, especially when it's been done the same way for the last couple of decades, at home and at work. And when we focus on the largest collective group of OS users: corporate environments, it takes a lot of time and money for a company to validate a new OS (if it even passes) then train everyone on things like getting past the lack of a Start Menu, understanding what is there, and how it works. And that's not including the swarm of extra help desk calls that would be inevitable.

3. Nope. The reason Win8 is NOT a perfectly capable and productive DESKTOP OS is because there is a lack of a familiar Start Menu. Too much change all at once for just about anyone that isn't a PC power user and/or enthusiast. Which is, sadly, just about everyone on the face of the Earth.

Once again, you're spouting off your seemingly closed-minded opinions on why Win8 is so easy FOR YOU to use, therefor it should be easy for anyone to use if they can just get past the HUGE CRITICAL FUCK UPS that Microsoft made with Win8 when it comes to a PC whose only means of user input (either by design or by user preference) is through a keyboard and mouse: no day 1 option to boot to desktop and no start button with full start menu (and the plethora of other issues that users have also brought up). Microsoft knows they fucked up and is, thankfully, working to rectify things. Proof positive: they usher in an 8.1 update that, holy shit, lets you boot to the desktop!

Windows 8 was clearly tailored for the primary user input device being a touch screen, maybe compounded with a gimmicky doo-hickey like a stylus (or your gesture-enabled touch mouse), and that is the largest misstep that Microsoft made...they left their largest revenue segment - their enterprise customers, high and dry.

It's an outstanding OS for consumer touch-enabled tablets, laptops, and desktops. I thoroughly enjoy using Win8 on the touchscreen tablets and laptops that I have used. But for a more "classic " type of computer, it still needs some more work before it can be taken seriously as a capable and productive OS.

I know, after all, there is no possible way I could be using this computer I am on or the one at home with a keyboard and mou...... Oh, Wait. Hybrid OS is not a touch only or even touch centric OS, but, whatever, seems you have not figured that one out yet, oh well.

 

[pcjunkie]

I'm setting up a Surface Pro 2 laptop right now for the director and all I can think when I look at it is what a fucking waste of money. He has no need for one but thinks its cool but he already has a laptop and an ipad less than a year old. Plus I have to set it up and take extra time to get it to look and act like Windows 7 so he doesn't bitch. These are the kind of people MS is counting on to refill their coffers...blaaahhhh.

 

[ManofGod]

I'm setting up a Surface Pro 2 laptop right now for the director and all I can think when I look at it is what a fucking waste of money. He has no need for one but thinks its cool but he already has a laptop and an ipad less than a year old. Plus I have to set it up and take extra time to get it to look and act like Windows 7 so he doesn't bitch. These are the kind of people MS is counting on to refill their coffers...blaaahhhh.

He is your boss, right? Perhaps you can actually just do what he says or stop bitching about it? Or maybe, just maybe, if he is willing, train him on how to use it. (A dock with it would be an excellent addition.)

 

[heatlesssun]

3. Nope. The reason Win8 is NOT a perfectly capable and productive DESKTOP OS is because there is a lack of a familiar Start Menu. Too much change all at once for just about anyone that isn't a PC power user and/or enthusiast. Which is, sadly, just about everyone on the face of the Earth.

You're equating capability with familiarity. The critical aspect of Windows on the desktop are it's applications, not how they are launched. Desktop applications pretty much work identically between 7 and 8.

Once again, you're spouting off your seemingly closed-minded opinions on why Win8 is so easy FOR YOU to use, therefor it should be easy for anyone to use if they can just get past the HUGE CRITICAL FUCK UPS that Microsoft made with Win8 when it comes to a PC whose only means of user input (either by design or by user preference) is through a keyboard and mouse: no day 1 option to boot to desktop and no start button with full start menu (and the plethora of other issues that users have also brought up). Microsoft knows they fucked up and is, thankfully, working to rectify things. Proof positive: they usher in an 8.1 update that, holy shit, lets you boot to the desktop!

I've always said that there was work to do to make Windows 8 more familiar and friendly to traditional keyboard and mouse users and that modern and desktop UI needed to be better integrated and more configurable and as you have pointed out there has been at least some progress here. Again, that doesn't mean that 8 isn't perfectly capable as a desktop OS.

Windows 8 was clearly tailored for the primary user input device being a touch screen, maybe compounded with a gimmicky doo-hickey like a stylus (or your gesture-enabled touch mouse), and that is the largest misstep that Microsoft made...they left their largest revenue segment - their enterprise customers, high and dry.

Gestures have long been a staple on Macbooks, they can be very effective on the desktop.

It's an outstanding OS for consumer touch-enabled tablets, laptops, and desktops. I thoroughly enjoy using Win8 on the touchscreen tablets and laptops that I have used. But for a more "classic " type of computer, it still needs some more work before it can be taken seriously as a capable and productive OS.

I don't really disagree with this, but yes, especially with this update, 8.1 is perfectly capable for productivity but it does take some adjustment to get there.

 

[heatlesssun]

I'm setting up a Surface Pro 2 laptop right now for the director and all I can think when I look at it is what a fucking waste of money. He has no need for one but thinks its cool but he already has a laptop and an ipad less than a year old. Plus I have to set it up and take extra time to get it to look and act like Windows 7 so he doesn't bitch. These are the kind of people MS is counting on to refill their coffers...blaaahhhh.

Not really sure what benefit there is to make something like a Surface Pro 2 look and act like 7.

 

[DejaWiz]

I know, after all, there is no possible way I could be using this computer I am on or the one at home with a keyboard and mou...... Oh, Wait. Hybrid OS is not a touch only or even touch centric OS, but, whatever, seems you have not figured that one out yet, oh well.

Microsoft knows they fucked up and they are working on fixing things...The following missteps should be a clear indicator for anyone that is capable of utilizing basic logic that this touch-centric OS is not worth a shit to a majority of the user base, especially the enterprise segments, that are still utilizing a keyboard and mouse only input:

-Win8.1 now allows boot to desktop. Wow!

-Third party Start Menu programs like Start8 are popular for a reason (except in corporate environments because they are third party programs). Wow!


Call it a hybrid OS and insult how the majority of the world feels as much as you want if that's what continues to make you feel like some kind of an elitist over an...operating system. I clearly stated that Windows 8 was tailored for the primary user input device to be a touch screen (see missteps above for logical proof).

Besides, I never stated that Windows 8 would not work with a keyboard and mouse only input. Basic reading and comprehension, but, whatever, seems you have still not figured that one out yet, oh well.

 

[pcjunkie]

He is your boss, right? Perhaps you can actually just do what he says or stop bitching about it? Or maybe, just maybe, if he is willing, train him on how to use it. (A dock with it would be an excellent addition.)

Feel free to ignore my posts since you don't have a fucking clue what your talking about. Dear lord the same people thread crapping over and over...

 

[pcjunkie]

Not really sure what benefit there is to make something like a Surface Pro 2 look and act like 7.

Useability

 

[Eradan]

He is your boss, right? Perhaps you can actually just do what he says or stop bitching about it? Or maybe, just maybe, if he is willing, train him on how to use it. (A dock with it would be an excellent addition.)

Train him? Then there'd be no time left for angry Internet tears.

I don't get how some of you can call yourself an IT professional. Hey, Chas. If Windows 8 is impeding your ability to do your job, wtf did you install on the the PC you use to support your clients? I mean if BIG LAWSUITS are a possibility, you probably should have done your homework before going all in.

Hats off to heatless, MoG, and other reasonable folk for suffering this angry cryfest.

 

[DejaWiz]

You're equating capability with familiarity. The critical aspect of Windows on the desktop are it's applications, not how they are launched. Desktop applications pretty much work identically between 7 and 8.

For a human driven Operating System to be capable, then the human operating it has to have a sense of familiarity. Going from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and expecting them to exert the same capability puts most peoples brains in to shock.

I've always said that there was work to do to make Windows 8 more familiar and friendly to traditional keyboard and mouse users and that modern and desktop UI needed to be better integrated and more configurable and as you have pointed out there has been at least some progress here. Again, that doesn't mean that 8 isn't perfectly capable as a desktop OS.

If Microsoft still has things to address, fix, and give back/add that the majority of people are and have been wanting in Win8 since day 1 then yes, it does mean just that.

Gestures have long been a staple on Macbooks, they can be very effective on the desktop.

Mac =/= Windows. Again, familiarity being a precursor to capability and productivity, that's just throwing more change and shit that needs to be learned onto everyone's plate all at once

I don't really disagree with this, but yes, especially with this update, 8.1 is perfectly capable for productivity but it does take some adjustment to get there.

Since it would take a lot of adjustment (time, training, and money) to get the majority of people to the point of being able to use it productively, then it is inherently not capable of being a productivity-focused OS. Just because you or I can use it with few to no issues does not mean the rest of the worlds population can pick up and run with it in a similar capacity. This has been proven time and time again to be a big problem with Windows 8...it's not so user friendly (productivity-based) because of the radical changes Microsoft made in swaying from familiarity, especially in most corporate environments.

 

[pcjunkie]

Train him? Then there'd be no time left for angry Internet tears.

I don't get how some of you can call yourself an IT professional. Hey, Chas. If Windows 8 is impeding your ability to do your job, wtf did you install on the the PC you use to support your clients? I mean if BIG LAWSUITS are a possibility, you probably should have done your homework before going all in.

Hats off to heatless, MoG, and other reasonable folk for suffering this angry cryfest.

Train him? In the first place he understands that we don't support Windows 8 and waste time training since we only support Window 7 and older. I am an IT professional and because of that we realize the training costs involved doing one off training for the phone OS and don't do them. He understands that but still wants it. Of course I'll have to show him how to get the hell out of Metro when he gets stuck, that goes without saying. Seriously have any of you weekend admins ever really budgeted, planned and trained a OS upgrade in an organization?

 

[ManofGod]

Train him? In the first place he understands that we don't support Windows 8 and waste time training since we only support Window 7 and older. I am an IT professional and because of that we realize the training costs involved doing one off training for the phone OS and don't do them. He understands that but still wants it. Of course I'll have to show him how to get the hell out of Metro when he gets stuck, that goes without saying. Seriously have any of you weekend admins ever really budgeted, planned and trained a OS upgrade in an organization?

Weekend admin. Oh, good retort. I know, having to train one person sure will put a strain on you, hope you do not break. Look, do you honestly think it is a good idea to come online and criticize your employer?

Personally, I hope he gets enjoyment out of the Suface Pro 2. Would be even better if he had a dock with dual monitors, keyboard and mouse to convert to a desktop when he needed it.

 

[heatlesssun]

For a human driven Operating System to be capable, then the human operating it has to have a sense of familiarity. Going from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and expecting them to exert the same capability puts most peoples brains in to shock.

I agree with this but the idea that most people go into shock it hyped a bit. Perhaps at first but like anything else, as one uses it, the more familiar it becomes.

If Microsoft still has things to address, fix, and give back/add that the majority of people are and have been wanting in Win8 since day 1 then yes, it does mean just that.

Whatever issues Windows 8 has, there is a great deal of misinformation about it. There's still people that have no idea about the Power Menu (right click on the Start Button/bottom left hot corner/Windows+X). When you actually learn what's there, yes, perfectly fine desktop OS that will do for most what Windows 7 did just as easily.

 

[Eradan]

Train him? In the first place he understands that we don't support Windows 8 and waste time training since we only support Window 7 and older. I am an IT professional and because of that we realize the training costs involved doing one off training for the phone OS and don't do them. He understands that but still wants it. Of course I'll have to show him how to get the hell out of Metro when he gets stuck, that goes without saying. Seriously have any of you weekend admins ever really budgeted, planned and trained a OS upgrade in an organization?

My bad. I didn't realize when you said you were deploying one device that you actually meant upgrading an entire organization. Probably would have picked up on that if I had worked Monday through Friday the last 16 years instead just weekends. It's clear to see you are a seasoned IT professional based on your posts in this thread alone. I have learned something today. Thank you.

 

[heatlesssun]

Of course I'll have to show him how to get the hell out of Metro when he gets stuck, that goes without saying.

This is actually an issue that this update addresses pretty well with the taskbar now always available and modern apps showing up in it. How the hell do you get out of Metro? The same way you get out of a full screen desktop app.

 

[DejaWiz]

I agree with this but the idea that most people go into shock it hyped a bit. Perhaps at first but like anything else, as one uses it, the more familiar it becomes.

Yes, I agree. But at what cost to something like a large company that has hundreds, thousands, or even tens-of-thousands of users that will be experiencing that shock, plus still be expected to carry on being productive? It's not going to be a "just use it for an hour and you'll be good to go" kind of a thing. The shock for most users will be there for weeks, a lesser amount will still have it for months, and a few will have it perhaps for even years. I still get the occasional service call for some people that have problems finding/doing things in Win7 that they could do in XP or Vi - and they've been migrated to Win7 for almost 2 years now. I can't begin to fathom the exponentially higher amount of calls and service tickets that would come in because of such a radical change from Win7 to Win8 vs WinXP to WinVi or Win7.

Whatever issues Windows 8 has, there is a great deal of misinformation about it. There's still people that have no idea about the Power Menu (right click on the Start Button/bottom left hot corner/Windows+X). When you actually learn what's there, yes, perfectly fine desktop OS that will do for most what Windows 7 did just as easily.

I will agree that there is quite a bit of misinformation (read: unfamiliarity) about Windows 8 and how it can succeed in a corporate environment, but again, that all goes back to the time and money needed to:
1. Validate the OS to ensure proper compatibility/operation with the vast software libraries large enterprises have.
2. Ensure that the existing hardware is sufficient for the new OS, or factor in the costs for new hardware.
3. Most importantly and to address your final sentence...Train the entire workforce so they can continue to maintain or increase productivity with the new OS.

...And that's just addressing mostly the enterprise segment. The consumer/home segments are a whole 'nother ball of yarn...most people are on their own to learn to use it, and most non computer savvy people I know don't like to (or aren't motivated to) break out of their familiar operational norms (habit-driven, almost lemming mindset, if you will).

If Microsoft would have just made Windows 8 from the get-go with a boot to desktop option and the inclusion of a full Start Menu, then they wouldn't have had to experience the multitude of negative things like the outcry and backlash from the majority of their largest revenue segment (let alone all segments), the shifting around or outright termination of individuals in key company positions, and the scramble to get things put back in like a start button and boot to desktop by means of updates/patches. That only leaves the final and, unarguably, the most important thing left to put back in: the start menu.

 

[pcjunkie]

My bad. I didn't realize when you said you were deploying one device that you actually meant upgrading an entire organization. Probably would have picked up on that if I had worked Monday through Friday the last 16 years instead just weekends. It's clear to see you are a seasoned IT professional based on your posts in this thread alone. I have learned something today. Thank you.

Thank you for realizing just how stupid you sound. I think it benefits us when we all learn something new everyday. Did you not read the part about about not wasting time training a "one off" employee. From now on let the big boys debate.

 

[DPI]

Feel free to ignore my posts since you don't have a fucking clue what your talking about. Dear lord the same people thread crapping over and over...

Ignore function is your friend.

 

[pcjunkie]

Yes, I agree. But at what cost to something like a large company that has hundreds, thousands, or even tens-of-thousands of users that will be experiencing that shock, plus still be expected to carry on being productive? It's not going to be a "just use it for an hour and you'll be good to go" kind of a thing. The shock for most users will be there for weeks, a lesser amount will still have it for months, and a few will have it perhaps for even years. I still get the occasional service call for some people that have problems finding/doing things in Win7 that they could do in XP or Vi - and they've been migrated to Win7 for almost 2 years now. I can't begin to fathom the exponentially higher amount of calls and service tickets that would come in because of such a radical change from Win7 to Win8 vs WinXP to WinVi or Win7.


I will agree that there is quite a bit of misinformation (read: unfamiliarity) about Windows 8 and how it can succeed in a corporate environment, but again, that all goes back to the time and money needed to:
1. Validate the OS to ensure proper compatibility/operation with the vast software libraries large enterprises have.
2. Ensure that the existing hardware is sufficient for the new OS, or factor in the costs for new hardware.
3. Most importantly and to address your final sentence...Train the entire workforce so they can continue to maintain or increase productivity with the new OS.

...And that's just addressing mostly the enterprise segment. The consumer/home segments are a whole 'nother ball of yarn...most people are on their own to learn to use it, and most non computer savvy people I know don't like to (or aren't motivated to) break out of their familiar operational norms (habit-driven, almost lemming mindset, if you will).

If Microsoft would have just made Windows 8 from the get-go with a boot to desktop option and the inclusion of a full Start Menu, then they wouldn't have had to experience the multitude of negative things like the outcry and backlash from the majority of their largest revenue segment (let alone all segments), the shifting around or outright termination of individuals in key company positions, and the scramble to get things put back in like a start button and boot to desktop by means of updates/patches. That only leaves the final and, unarguably, the most important thing left to put back in: the start menu.

Its funny how now all of the sudden you have to now train employees how, why and when to left click AND right click on the start button, menu whatever you call it...yeah, that is progress right there.

 

[pcjunkie]

Ignore function is your friend.

If you would have had me on ignore you wouldn't have even seen that post...ironic

 

[DejaWiz]

Its funny how now all of the sudden you have to now train employees how, why and when to left click AND right click on the start button, menu whatever you call it...yeah, that is progress right there.

That's because it's not hard to figure out that Windows 8 is a touch-based OS with a shitload of applied band-aids, afterthoughts, and now backtracks to make it into a half-assed desktop OS for those with non-touch enabled computers...which happens to be just about everyone in the world.

 

[Eradan]

Thank you for realizing just how stupid you sound. I think it benefits us when we all learn something new everyday. Did you not read the part about about not wasting time training a "one off" employee. From now on let the big boys debate.

Let's be clear. There is no debate here. There are a few people trying to respond to criticisms, many of which are born of bias and ignorance. And then there's Team Crybag, consisting of angry children who are upset because Microsoft will not give them a cookie.

I read your post. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes if you have any idea what you're doing. In fact, I'd say the amount of time you've spent crying in these threads would be MORE than enough time to get someone moving with Windows 8.

But you don't seem like a good candidate for training anyone on anything, let alone Windows 8. What your boss really needs is friendly, professional help. I'd love to share you comments in this post with him so he can see what a terrific human being he has employed. And it sounds what you really need is a Kleenex and a nap.

 

[pcjunkie]

Let's be clear. There is no debate here. There are a few people trying to respond to criticisms, many of which are born of bias and ignorance. And then there's Team Crybag, consisting of angry children who are upset because Microsoft will not give them a cookie.

I read your post. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes if you have any idea what you're doing. In fact, I'd say the amount of time you've spent crying in these threads would be MORE than enough time to get someone moving with Windows 8.

But you don't seem like a good candidate for training anyone on anything, let alone Windows 8. What your boss really needs is friendly, professional help. I'd love to share you comments in this post with him so he can see what a terrific human being he has employed. And it sounds what you really need is a Kleenex and a nap.

LOL...you mad, you seem really mad? Sounds like you need a nap yourself? Sorry I don't like Windows 8 more or want to take the time to train anybody but try and get over that fact...."take more than a few minutes if you know what you are doing"...you have to be kidding if your talking about the average person and enough time so they remember what they learned. Jeeezz weekend admins are funny.

 

[heatlesssun]

That's because it's not hard to figure out that Windows 8 is a touch-based OS with a shitload of applied band-aids, afterthoughts, and now backtracks to make it into a half-assed desktop OS for those with non-touch enabled computers...which happens to be just about everyone in the world.

With 8.1 and this update, after disabling of the Windows Store and removal of modern apps and configuring it for desktop usage, it's not that different from Windows 7 on the desktop. Get familiar with the Start Screen, full screen search, search from File Explorer and PC Settings, the bottom left and right hot corners. That's really it and that's at most an hour of training which can be done online. When is comes down to it, how many people using Windows XP or 7 know much more than clicking on a link in the Start Menu to launch an app?

 

[Trimlock]

I can't remember the last time I used the start menu, honestly I don't miss it either.

 

[DejaWiz]

With 8.1 and this update, after disabling of the Windows Store and removal of modern apps and configuring it for desktop usage, it's not that different from Windows 7 on the desktop. Get familiar with the Start Screen, full screen search, search from File Explorer and PC Settings, the bottom left and right hot corners. That's really it and that's at most an hour of training which can be done online. When is comes down to it, how many people using Windows XP or 7 know much more than clicking on a link in the Start Menu to launch an app?

Yes, it is rather simplistic to people in our tiny percentage of the pie chart of Types of PC Users, but please re-read what you just typed there.

In reality, those are a lot of steps and new things that would need to be taught to average Joe/Jane Schmoe in order for them to be able to start using Windows 8 in a fashion that was as close as possible to Windows 7 (and then re-taught because they didn't retain it the first 20 times they were taught). That is the true reality of Windows 8 failing: missing key features and components to make it familiar thus usable to a majority of the world that is already familiar with the way just about every previous Windows version works.

 

[Eradan]

Some of you guys must be cursed with subhuman end-users because I've yet to spend more than 20 minutes getting any acclimated to the fundamentals of Windows 8.

I've had one user who is admittedly computer illiterate and intimidated by computers in general bring in his personal laptop which he bought with Windows 8. I spent maybe 10 minutes with this user demonstrating how to toggle between the desktop and start screen and how to find applications. I made a few shortcuts for him on the desktop for commonly used apps (Office, Firefox). Afterward he said he couldn't understand all the fuss with Windows 8 and that it wasn't that big of a deal. And he's been fine since.

I think the fact that I approach the training with a positive attitude makes the difference, rather than making a big fuss because they got stuck with "shitty Windows 8". It is not without flaws, but it's not the end of the world either. All the vitriol and teeth gnashing just makes the people who are not computer savvy more uncomfortable. Be a fucking professional.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to avoid Win 8 in a corporate environment. I get that. So don't deploy it. But spare me the snarky, anti-Microsoft, hater bullshit. It's juvenile, it's unnecessary, and doesn't help anyone. All the SMBs I serve have just moved to Windows 7 in the last 12 to 24 months. It doesn't make sense to upgrade anyway.

 

[heatlesssun]

In reality, those are a lot of steps and new things that would need to be taught to average Joe/Jane Schmoe in order for them to be able to start using Windows 8 in a fashion that was as close as possible to Windows 7 (and then re-taught because they didn't retain it the first 20 times they were taught). That is the true reality of Windows 8 failing: missing key features and components to make it familiar thus usable to a majority of the world that is already familiar with the way just about every previous Windows version works.

The Start Menu isn't a key feature, it is a familiar one to some, but honestly, what is the average office worker doing on a PC? Launching some desktop application and then using it. The difference between 7 & 8 there isn't weeks of training. The next thing might be search, which if you can from XP you were doing through the Start Menu. PC Settings would be next and the average office worker isn't changing these kinds of settings.

Again, I'm not saying that Windows 8 doesn't need to be more keyboard and mouse friendly and familiar. But with this update especially it's come some ways from the 8.0 RTM. But at this point I understand everyone has made up their minds and even though 8.1 with the update is pretty solid with keyboards and mice, many people are still thinking about the 8.0 release. This update hasn't even been formally released, who here is even using the leaks?

 

[DPI]

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to avoid Win 8 in a corporate environment. I get that. So don't deploy it. But spare me the snarky, anti-Microsoft, hater bullshit. It's juvenile, it's unnecessary, and doesn't help anyone. All the SMBs I serve have just moved to Windows 7 in the last 12 to 24 months. It doesn't make sense to upgrade anyway.

Spare me the assumption that people expressing legitimate concerns with an OS they've loved for years = "snarky, anti-Microsoft, hater bullshit".

 

[heatlesssun]

I think the fact that I approach the training with a positive attitude makes the difference, rather than making a big fuss because they got stuck with "shitty Windows 8". It is not without flaws, but it's not the end of the world either. All the vitriol and teeth gnashing just makes the people who are not computer savvy more uncomfortable. Be a fucking professional.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to avoid Win 8 in a corporate environment. I get that. So don't deploy it. But spare me the snarky, anti-Microsoft, hater bullshit. It's juvenile, it's unnecessary, and doesn't help anyone. All the SMBs I serve have just moved to Windows 7 in the last 12 to 24 months. It doesn't make sense to upgrade anyway.

Bingo. Like you say, 8 is not without flaws but a lot of people are spending trying to make 8 into 7 and aren't even looking much at what is in 8. If one doesn't like 8 that's fine, but if they are constantly complaining about it and trying to avoid all of the modern elements they probably aren't the best people getting others up to speed on it.

 

[heatlesssun]

Spare me the assumption that people expressing legitimate concerns with an OS they've loved for years = "snarky, anti-Microsoft, hater bullshit".

Love Windows? That's funny. There aren't that many that love Windows and it's UI has been criticized broad and far forever. I like 8 because of all that it can do, no single OS has it's capabilities. Period.

 

[Gorankar]

Bingo. Like you say, 8 is not without flaws but a lot of people are spending trying to make 8 into 7 and aren't even looking much at what is in 8. If one doesn't like 8 that's fine, but if they are constantly complaining about it and trying to avoid all of the modern elements they probably aren't the best people getting others up to speed on it.

Why get them up to speed on it, when returning the UI to a state they are comfortable with is so easy? From google search, to install, and setup of a start menu restoration program, and then changing all of their default programs to non Metro versions, is 5-10 minutes. They then have all the actual advantages of Win8, without having to learn the new UI, or bother with Metro apps. Trying hard to see a down side.

 

[pcjunkie]

Some of you guys must be cursed with subhuman end-users because I've yet to spend more than 20 minutes getting any acclimated to the fundamentals of Windows 8.

I've had one user who is admittedly computer illiterate and intimidated by computers in general bring in his personal laptop which he bought with Windows 8. I spent maybe 10 minutes with this user demonstrating how to toggle between the desktop and start screen and how to find applications. I made a few shortcuts for him on the desktop for commonly used apps (Office, Firefox). Afterward he said he couldn't understand all the fuss with Windows 8 and that it wasn't that big of a deal. And he's been fine since.

I think the fact that I approach the training with a positive attitude makes the difference, rather than making a big fuss because they got stuck with "shitty Windows 8". It is not without flaws, but it's not the end of the world either. All the vitriol and teeth gnashing just makes the people who are not computer savvy more uncomfortable. Be a fucking professional.

There are plenty of legitimate reasons to avoid Win 8 in a corporate environment. I get that. So don't deploy it. But spare me the snarky, anti-Microsoft, hater bullshit. It's juvenile, it's unnecessary, and doesn't help anyone. All the SMBs I serve have just moved to Windows 7 in the last 12 to 24 months. It doesn't make sense to upgrade anyway.

I see through all your extensive knowledge and training hundreds of really smart employees on Win 8 that its easy to train anyone in 10-20 minutes just like that. Unfortunately not everyone learns at the same pace and can retain the same information. It took that long from XP to Win 7 for the transition so I guess Win 8 is the same right? Give me a fucking break, some of us live in reality. Careful that fan boy is oozing out. Why don't you act like a professional yourself and respect other opinions, whether its love, hate, like or dislike of an OS and that they know what they are talking about. I see you don't you throw a fit with some of the blind Win 8 lovers around here defending every little oddball decision MS makes? Do yourself a favor and put all of us non believers on ignore, because like the fan boys were not going away. Problem is you just want the negative posters to shut up, right?

 

[DejaWiz]

Why get them up to speed on it, when returning the UI to a state they are comfortable with is so easy? From google search, to install, and setup of a start menu restoration program, and then changing all of their default programs to non Metro versions, is 5-10 minutes. They then have all the actual advantages of Win8, without having to learn the new UI, or bother with Metro apps. Trying hard to see a down side.

Big down side is most corporate environments whose IT departments do not allow third party programs like Start8.

 

[Eradan]

Why don't you act like a professional yourself and respect other opinions, whether its love, hate, like or dislike of an OS and that they know what they are talking about.

Because it's pretty evident that you don't.