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Official World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Litch King Thread
- Thread starter AthlonXP
- Start date
Pretty sure Bambi is saying 7:1 Horde:Alliance ratio, meaning there are more horde players, which on the servers I've played on is true.
lol
this is why they made blood elves imo.
also, any argument about blizz and lore goes out the window now that they've gotten away the the LOL PURPLE SPACESHIPS WITH ALIENS thing
QFMFT
Actually I think its Alliance >>> Horde across the board. Not 7:1 though, closer to 2:1 or 3:1
Ahh.. I've been away for a really long time, but the server I was on, I was pretty sure horde outnumbered the alliance. Could be wrong though, heh
.According to the warcraftrealms census, pop is about 55% alliance 45% horde.
Tier 1: Uh, no, the differences are bigger than that. It adds up: the blue set has less resilience and over a 1000 less HP. More importantly, the blue set gives you blue-quality weapons that are significantly weaker than arena epics.
Tier 2 and Tier 3 require arena, which, as I said before, is pretty much out of the question for several class specs in the game, including the ones that I like to play. It's not a question of skill for an enhancement shaman to even make it to his opponent to get some hits in before he's instagibbed.
Lemme guess, you play an arms warrior or resto druid or something.
Funny how the classes that can faceroll into a decent arena rating love arena when everyone else...doesn't! This esport arena BS is destroying the game's PvP.locks own DKs
Death grip, < HOWLING TERROR BITCHES, dot dot dot Death Coil, fear
Have you actually played a warlock? Because a warlock who specs deeply enough to get a talented instant howl of terror isn't going to survive very long in the middle of 4 melee classes. And it's been a helluva long time since fear has been particularly useful as anything more than a temporary interrupt in pvp.
Considering that the death grip strategy will be used immediately at the outset in a blitzkrieg style, how's the rogue going to make it across the map in time to lock down the DK team's healer before the group has already death gripped a victim to instagib? The first death grip->death will be immediate. Now it's 5vs4. You've seen how quickly people go down when they're assist-trained by 4 strong melee opponents right? Now imagine that happening so fast that most healers won't even have time to react.
The only two classes that the death grip-instagib combo will not work on - if the players react fast enough - are mages and paladins.
I think your keyboard is broken because you keep hitting the q button too much.
By the way, I don't like arena's either, but I don't cry about it.
Secondly Blizzard plans on doing something like a rank system in BG again.
So when they do something like that, and if they did...
Tier 1 - Pure honor or Pure arena points (+ PvE option)
Tier 2 - Medium level Rank in BG, or medium level rank in Arena (+ PvE option)
Tier 3 - Super uber high BG rank, or super uber high Arena rank
Wouldn't that be even?
And I think that your brain is broken because you keep thinking that sarcastic QQ responses are a substitute for reasonable discussion.
The honor ranks were epic fail the way they did things before so it would have to depend a lot on how it was implemented.
So you don't like competitive Battlegrounds, nor Arena. Essentially what I am getting out of this is that anything that requires any type of skill or significant time to get is an issue for you.
I understand now, I thought you had a legitimate argument. It's just your not good at PvP.
Maybe PvP isn't for you, try Warhammer, heard great things about it!
I'm fine at pvp. Not the best, but not bad either. Affliction warlocks and enhancement shamans face a very steep uphill battle to make any headway in arena. Period. It has nothing to do with skill. Stop confusing FotM arena compositions with skill; they're not the same thing. There are some class imbalances that arena amplifies that cannot be overcome by skill.
"Significant time" is an understatement when talking about the commitment one had to make to progress under the old rank system. People were getting to R14 only by sharing their account with their friends so that the character could be in battlegrounds almost 24/7. Do you not remember that? That's not "significant time." That's just unhealthy.
Where you're going wrong is simple: you're confusing this game with work. Some of us would be perfectly satisfied if we could enjoy PvP. Enjoying PvP requires us to at least stand a chance at it. During the TBC arena seasons, that wasn't possible for some class specs and a lot of the time, trying to start out in arenas was no fun at all either because even when you started a brand new team you were still facing completely epicced out face-rolling comp teams even at the 1500 level. Protip: it's no fun to get repeatedly stomped on. But that's pretty much what happens to many people where arena is concerned. A cheaply available blue set that doesn't have as much survivability or anywhere near as much damage output is not going to change this in the expansion.
You know what? Meh.
Someone let me know when Rozal0 turns 18 in 6 years, because then maybe he'll be capable of holding a discussion with someone. If I wanted to deal with a QQ L2P OMGWTFBBQ troll I'd go to the cesspool of the official forums and wouldn't be here.
Someone let me know when Rozal0 turns 18 in 6 years, because then maybe he'll be capable of holding a discussion with someone. If I wanted to deal with a QQ L2P OMGWTFBBQ troll I'd go to the cesspool of the official forums and wouldn't be here.
As far as I know, it is not a direct nerf per se, but the amount required for 1% resilience will increase more than proportionally.
Still, I think the concept of resilience is deeply flawed and generates major imbalances, in the way no other stat does. First of all, since it is a defensive stat, it will of course affect all attackers fighting against you (which makes it pound for pound more efficient than the same stat budget allocation on offensive skills). Second of all, it affects every single incoming attack, be it magic, physical, etc. 1 vs 1 it may not be that big of a deal. But on 3 v 3 and 5 v5 arenas, even small differences in resilience lead to quite significant differences in damage output needed to kill someone.
Which is why if by the half of the second season you dont have a decent pvp set you either have to spend weeks catching up by farming honor and slowly getting arena sets at the lower ratings or you will simply never be competitive. It gets even worse after season 3 or so, and unless the seasons start getting really long, it becomes impossible to catch up.
Yoshiyuki Blade
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Not only team comp, but also individual skill are extremely important in my experience. As much as I like to QQ about how utterly useless mages were in 2v2 arena after S2 (a lot of mages felt the same way), there were still exceptionally good mages who would consistently top 2k rating in 2v2 every single season. Much of the time, it's all on the player's dedication and know-how of the combat system.
It's not a difference in gear. Once you put in a certain amount of effort, the gear variable becomes neglegible. Me having 4/5 S3 gear as well as the S2 weapon, I couldn't go much beyond 1700 rating during S3. Why? It's not because I didn't have a S3 weapon or shoulders. It was my team comp and my skill. As frustrating as it was being pitted against double rogue, mage/rogue, druid/war, priest/war, shaman/war teams, I could have done better if I executed things better.
And besides the time required to farm, what's wrong with getting 5 pieces of blue pvp gear along with the usual epic gear you can get with BGs (belt, necklace, cloak, boots, etc)? You'll be getting the same stats as like 80% of other players. The difference of stats between the bottom tier and middle tier gear is minimal at best. It's only a few adjustments in stats across just 5 pieces of gear. They'll still have the same BG epics as you. But if you're complaining about top-tier PvPers that have their own dedicated set of epics, you're complaining about really small percentage of players. It's nothing worth losing sleep over.
I could still kill stuff and have fun in BGs just with the "baseline" pvp gear, as I never had top pvp gear for a prolonged period of time. But when it comes to competetive arena, you have to stop being careless, and really try not to get yourself killed. That may not be fun to you, since that's where things get a little more "serious" (you actually LOSE rating when you lose!). It's really something you can't jump in immediately/carelessly and expect positive results. It takes some planning and execution to be be sucesssful. Jumping in arena and getting owned by "completely epicced out face-rolling comp teams" already shows a lack of preparation. You can get a completely epicced out toon and a good team comp without ever setting foot in the arena. Again, it takes some planning and execution. Once that's over with, its all on the indiviual skill of you and your teammates. I've encountered TERRIBLE teams that had good team comps and baseline epics plenty of times. Coincidentally those encounters are in the early 1500 range. Likewise I've had teams with similar gear/team composition completely pwn us. I wasn't like "wtf we pwned these teams before, how is this possible?" There was a clear difference in organization and properly executed attacks.
And as unfortunate as it is, some classes do have an advantage over the others. There's not much else I can say about that issue, but it shouldn't hold you back from getting at least middle tier pvp gear if your planning and execution is done decently. The class balance issues is wide but not that wide.
Roll an enhancement shaman and try to pvp with him at 70, or 80 now, and then you'll understand.
It is nigh impossible to get a high enough rating on an enhancement shaman to gear him up well unless you play arena as resto spec.
Then you have to do something that most other classes don't: grind out a resto set to be competitive, and then come back and do it again for enhancement.
Then when you have the gear...
You're still getting rooted/snared with no way to make it to your target.
You're still getting killed quickly before you get to your target because you don't have much in the way of survivability.
That is patently NOT TRUE any more. That was my whole point to begin with. You cannot get competitive gear without entering the arena.
The difference between the blue set and the epic set isn't "some stats." It's not minimal at best. The blue weapons are a good 20 dps behind the middle tier weapons. The armor sets will have almost a thousand HP less. They'll have less resilience. Less survivability. And they won't make up for it with damage, either.
Arena is destroying WoW PvP, period.
It is nigh impossible to get a high enough rating on an enhancement shaman to gear him up well unless you play arena as resto spec.
Then you have to do something that most other classes don't: grind out a resto set to be competitive, and then come back and do it again for enhancement.
Then when you have the gear...
You're still getting rooted/snared with no way to make it to your target.
You're still getting killed quickly before you get to your target because you don't have much in the way of survivability.
That is patently NOT TRUE any more. That was my whole point to begin with. You cannot get competitive gear without entering the arena.
The difference between the blue set and the epic set isn't "some stats." It's not minimal at best. The blue weapons are a good 20 dps behind the middle tier weapons. The armor sets will have almost a thousand HP less. They'll have less resilience. Less survivability. And they won't make up for it with damage, either.
Arena is destroying WoW PvP, period.
TheCowOfNow
Assault then RUN AWAY!
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arenas ftl... i have a affy lock and enhance shaman.. .
arenas ftl... i have a affy lock and enhance shaman.. .
Out of curiosity, did you roll your affliction lock before or after your shaman?
Yoshiyuki Blade
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Yeah its a problem for hybrid classes with specs that are at a disadvantage, but I won't go so far as to say that it's impossible to at least get middle-tier gear. There's probably ways to get around this disadvantage (besides purely outskilling everyone), but itll take more work than being an OP class. Again, I can't say much in the way of class balance because its a really icky issue and varies between team brackets. For example, I hear mages do relatively well in 3v3 and 5v5, but terribly in 2v2.
It's hard to say for now, but if TBC is any indication, gear will trickle down as the seasons progress. There will probably always be a certain threshold for entry, which was the whole reason why Blizz moved old arena gear to the honor system in the first place. I'd really be surprised if Blizz doesn't do the same for WotLK, but at the same time we'll hear players complaining about PvP getting free epix.
Anyhow, everything we talked about up to now is about TBC arena experiences. Things can change, and maybe your favorite spec will become viable in some way. I know my old favorite spec isn't, and hasn't ever been. But meh, I don't care about that anymore. We have all yet to see how lvl 80 arena will pan out.
As for the stats, I still find it quite neglegible. There were rarely ever any matches where I told myself "Man, if I just had a little more spellpower or a little more health, we would have won." Close matches didn't happen often for me, and most matches were pretty clear-cut. If I pulled off the wrong moves at the wrong times, it costed me the game. Or if I encountered an OP team comp that knew what they were doing, there wasn't much I could do there. Lastly, there were teams (usually the OP ones), that dragged fights out for-freaking-ever. No amount of damage or health could make a difference there. A double-caster dps class (for example) will simply be drained of mana against a melee (infinite resource mechanic) and a healer with high mana regen and insane instant-cast heals.
I have had some situations where a target would be at like 1% health then get healed back to full health before I could finish him, but those occasions were extremely rare. And that's more of a problem with healers being OP because its usually a crappy-geared team that could narrowly win that way. Against well-geared teams with healers, we usually didn't stand a chance unless it was a paladin healer. This is excluding skill level, which can vary wildly between team comps and gear.
Setting all that complicated arena BS aside, what's wrong with ignoring arenas and just BG with BG-quality gear? If you hate arena so much, you're not gonna miss out on much by not doing it. You literally lose some stat points in 5 pieces of gear, and nothing else. Besides those 5 pieces, everyone up to the 1800 rating bracket will be (theoretically) identical stat-wise. If you're getting face-rolled because you had 19k health instead of 20k, a little less AP/SP, and 2%-3% resilience, there's definitely something wrong happening on your end. Or is it that you do wanna do arena, but it's just too difficult and complicated for your off-spec? Is that a problem with arena, or class balancing? If that's the case, there's a lot more to it than just the flaws of 1 system.
It's a problem with class balancing that has been exasperated significantly by arena. Stupid class buffs and nerfs have all gone live BECAUSE of arena. Perfect example: arcane shot dispel. Perfect example #2: half-duration DoTs on mage armor. Perfect example #3: warlocks being nerfed into the ground, returning them to the status they had when WoW first launched: free HKs.
I think it's quite reasonable to extrapolate poor performance in arena for shamans based on level 70. Shamans started to fall behind in a big way with patch 2.0 - not even with TBC, but with the TBC patch. Without SIGNIFICANT HUGE buffs, shamans will not catch up. And if there's one thing that the last 2+ years have taught the shaman community, it's that Blizzard will not give shamans buffs.
Actually, I take that back. It wasn't patch 2.0...it was the shaman "review" that was supposed to happen two patches prior but got pushed back because of mage and paladin whining. Shamans fell behind when Blizzard decided mages couldn't wait and did mages and shamans both at the same time, then Eyonix went AWOL, didn't collect or deliver feedback, then comes back post-review "lol hai guyz, how did you like your class review?" None of the shaman requests were answered, but hey, at least mages got a free evocation!
(And by the way, I have yet to see a gripe from the mage community that was valid.)
I think it's quite reasonable to extrapolate poor performance in arena for shamans based on level 70. Shamans started to fall behind in a big way with patch 2.0 - not even with TBC, but with the TBC patch. Without SIGNIFICANT HUGE buffs, shamans will not catch up. And if there's one thing that the last 2+ years have taught the shaman community, it's that Blizzard will not give shamans buffs.
Actually, I take that back. It wasn't patch 2.0...it was the shaman "review" that was supposed to happen two patches prior but got pushed back because of mage and paladin whining. Shamans fell behind when Blizzard decided mages couldn't wait and did mages and shamans both at the same time, then Eyonix went AWOL, didn't collect or deliver feedback, then comes back post-review "lol hai guyz, how did you like your class review?" None of the shaman requests were answered, but hey, at least mages got a free evocation!
(And by the way, I have yet to see a gripe from the mage community that was valid.)
From what I remember while playing mages were the worst class. I think they still are the worst class but have had some recent and by recent I mean wotlk, improvements.
Oh I see, you rather not hear my response because you'd hate to be proven wrong, I'll say it anyways. (Sorry I hate it when people ignore me, I'll be nicer, sorry)
Besides I have some nice things to say below and I ask you read them.
No doubt that some specs face a near brickwall with their specs. I do agree arena's are broken because unless your one of the best Enhancement shamans, or Aff. Warlock. You can't really get far.
I agree. Ranks should not be given to those who spend more time to play the game.
When did you last play a warlock? When I played they were sooo overpowered, as were druids, and ret pallies.
Arena basically ruined the game, and continues to do so.
Wrench
[H]F Junkie
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Aside from just before the xpac went live. When were ret pallies OP. I've played as my main a pally since launch and prior to that CB and OB. Ret pallies were only OP one time and that was like last month.
Our issue has always been no way to control damage output, mana efficiency, severe gear dependancy no way to CC except for stun or a talent specced CC.
Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I am currently loving my blood elf death knight. Most fun I have had playing this game in a long time.
And I explored a bit of Northrend with my rogue and found it to be absolutely awesome. This expansion is definitely amazing, imo.
And I explored a bit of Northrend with my rogue and found it to be absolutely awesome. This expansion is definitely amazing, imo.
lol
TheCowOfNow
Assault then RUN AWAY!
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i like the music so far a lot, in HF, its awesome.
I guess it's just like when BE's were introduced, lol.
Exactly I think you almost answered your own post. Arena?? not oldschool at all. Think back to Launch day to almost a year and a half of warlock/druid/hunter QQ nerdrage. If you don't remember Caydiem then you haven't been there.
Monkey God
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I remember Caydiem from way back, is she still around?
Not sure what you mean by answering my own post.
I played the game for awhile, but never cared about the blizzard community or what they're retarded reps and GM's were doing. Think I started back in late "04 or early '05
Vengance_01
Supreme [H]ardness
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The game launched November 2004 I think.
Your original Post --
well 'almost' (emphasis) ..Fact can't be disputed: Druids, Warlocks were weak pre BC.
Therefore just using logic:
If anyone played at any time during the first year of WoW without ever looking at the forums,GM, reps posts, one would know when I played when I mention weak warlocks, weak hunters/druids, and strong Shaman.
Knowing the history of these classes and playing against them..logic dictates you already have your answer and can figure out the time frame.
Warlocks were the weakest most neglected class in WoW's early days. The next in line were druids and hunters tied for 2nd worst. In contrast, Shaman were the strongest. Pve server?
Yeah, I vaguely remember those days, rolled on a pvp server though. Laughing Skull.