Vista To Take Hard Stand Against Piracy

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SandTiger

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From the main page: "People running a version of Windows Vista that it believes is pirated will initially be denied access to some of the most anticipated Vista features. That includes Windows Aero, an improved graphics technology. If a legitimate copy is not bought within 30 days, the system will curtail functionality much further by restricting users to just the Web browser for an hour at a time."

That is going to go over like a Turd in a punch bowl. That pisses me off so much. Why?

I have a completely legit version of Windows XP that I PAID for 2 years ago. Installed fine and everything was dandy for about a year or more. Then, one day I go to download directX update from microsofts website, it checks to make sure my windows is legit.. and... NO.. somehow My LEGIT version of windows is no longer legit.

No reason was given on the webpage to indicate as to why it thinks its an illegal version. And I am not reinstalling to see if that fixes it, as I don't feel like spending an entire weekend reloading all my software.

There are already key gen's out there for every single microsoft product, that fool microsoft into thinking its a legit version. This is not going to stop people from pirating. MS is even putting all the versions of Vista on 1 DVD!!! It's just going to make people who are actually supporting microsoft more upset.
 
Did you contact MS and let them knwo your problem?

I think there's nothing wrong with it AS LONG AS it doesn't affect legit users. But it will.
 
The more they try to stop it, the faster its going to be cracked. You know that statement has a slew of hackers mouth's watering...
 
HighwayAssassins said:
The more they try to stop it, the faster its going to be cracked. You know that statement has a slew of hackers mouth's watering...
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Even the Genuine Program that Microsoft tried to do is cracked.

Pretty much the only way I know of that is extremely intrusive to the customer is basically a Microsoft-side genuine program where they hold all the legit keys that are possible and won't approve customer's OS installation without a proper key submitted to Microsoft to verified you own it via the internet.
 
Legit users will get screwed over by over complicated protection against piracy.

I for one will be sticking with XP Professional for as long as possible. There is little Vista offers which XP doesn't do well.
 
ViriiK said:
Even the Genuine Program that Microsoft tried to do is cracked.

Pretty much the only way I know of that is extremely intrusive to the customer is basically a Microsoft-side genuine program where they hold all the legit keys that are possible and won't approve customer's OS installation without a proper key submitted to Microsoft to verified you own it via the internet.
Click to expand...

That would be what XP's activation does. yet it was cracked
 
ryan_975 said:
That would be what XP's activation does. yet it was cracked
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No, you don't understand. What I meant was, is that Microsoft wouldn't approved the installation until you submitted the key to them via the internet. Whereas you're submitted a key on the local machine and the local software checks.
 
Even that would be cracked in no time though, all that has to be done is figure out how to bypass the check and return what the installer is expecting from MS.

The only thing that's going to stop piracy is if MS has employees personallycome out to every person/company who purchases their OS and install it using a secret key that only MS employers are entitled to know. Every employee would have their own key, so if it is pirated then MS will know exactly who shared their key. After installation the key is discarded so there's no record of it anywhere. Then a Product key in entered that is used to generate a Product ID for support purposes. The MS employee then takes the installtion media with them so that it can not be copied and hacked. If the customer needs a reinstallation, then the MS employee will come back out and perform the reinstall for a support fee.

The is also has the added benefit of making sure that customers do full system backups so as to not have an MS employees coming out all the time for a fee.
 
ryan_975 said:
Even that would be cracked in no time though, all that has to be done is figure out how to bypass the check and return what the installer is expecting from MS.

The only thing that's going to stop piracy is if MS has employees personallycome out to every person/company who purchases their OS and install it using a secret key that only MS employers are entitled to know. Every employee would have their own key, so if it is pirated then MS will know exactly who shared their key.
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Ah, yes that's a much better one.
 
spicey said:
Legit users will get screwed over by over complicated protection against piracy.

I for one will be sticking with XP Professional for as long as possible. There is little Vista offers which XP doesn't do well.
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qft.
 
Innocent people always get screwed over in war. Microsoft is at war with the people who commit crimes against them on a daily basis. You can always use linux.
 
Microsofts "Genuine Advantage" program wasn't to stop piracy and crackers. It was meant more to weed out the countless stores that sell pirated copies of Windows on their machines, to usually unknowing consumers. And as such, for them has been a success.

They are well aware that they will never stop piracy, this is nothing new to them. Hell, they've probably already figured out how their latest efforts are going to be thwarted.

As for the Vista preventative methods, despite the odd case, their anti-piracy methods will not affect you as a legit user. Even in XP, most activation problems can be solved with a simple phone call.
 
Of course if people were not jerks that tried stealing then the company would not need to try and defend itself. Remember, Gates may be a majority share holder of MS, but MS is still a publicly traded company and if share holders do not feel the company is properly manging they will either sell of their shares OR seek legal action against the company.

Instead of blaming MS for doing what they feel has to be done, blame the jerk-wads that feel cool stealing. Just like you lock your car doors so your car (or items inside) are not stolen, or you lock your house door so you don't get robbed, MS is simply locking their OS so they don't get robbed. No it is not perfect, but neither is the lock on your front door.

Personally I find the whole activation and product key thing a minor annoyance and any time I have ran into problems MS has been quick to resolve my problem with little hassle. Perhaps MS should follow Apples lead and only sell their OS on their own hardware, and then all other computer can be Linux based.

I must say though, for as much as people hate microsoft and spend time cracking their software they sure never seem to be capable of building a better product.
 
I paid for Windows 2000 Professional and it is what runs (part of the time) on my desktop.

The laptop I use runs Windows XP since tht's what came on it.

It's foolish to upgrade proprietary programs/operating systems unless absolutely needed.
 
The Donut said:
As for the Vista preventative methods, despite the odd case, their anti-piracy methods will not affect you as a legit user. Even in XP, most activation problems can be solved with a simple phone call.
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Sounds good, unless you are "the odd case" that just plunked down $xxx for their shiny new OS and it doesn't work. I had that experience with Titan Quest. My retail version flat out refused to run. Get a "no cd" hack and it works fine.
 
I hate when stuff like that happens, but we have to all be realistic. Nobody in their right mind ever purchases anything and believes that it will work perfectly all the time. Cars, electronics, a new blender. Sure we expect it to but we all understand that shit happens.
 
00ber_m00 said:
we all understand that shit happens.
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Exactly. Microsoft has a right to protect their property.
I really doubt that this is going to be as big a problem as some people think it is.
Use legitimate software and I think the odds are you will have no problems.
 
Hey I am all for MS trying to stop mass piracy. Especially those "stores" that sells their PCs with pirated WinXP and Office software (for free? pre-installed?). Anyways, I suspect Vista will be more intrusive and cause us have less enjoyable experience with Vista. Hey who wants to be reminded over and over you are a genuine client? Everytime you download an update or a MS software you get reminded. Lets check your system to see if you're kosher.

And in the end, if I wanted Vista for free, I just have to go do a search on some bittorrent site and voila 2 weeks before they release Vista it's cracked.

Weak.
 
I think sooner or later microsoft will include the legit check control in every patch/update is released, so it will be impossible to crack everything you install in a non legal box.

oldmx
 
anyone read the article about how MS drm was cracked? oh ya, its not even realised yet. i'm almost sad to see MS lose its technology before it goes public.
 
00ber_m00 said:
I hate when stuff like that happens, but we have to all be realistic. Nobody in their right mind ever purchases anything and believes that it will work perfectly all the time. Cars, electronics, a new blender. Sure we expect it to but we all understand that shit happens.
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Yes, but the problem is that as a purchasing customer, I ought to get a "better" product than the pirates, yet for some perverted reason the opposite is true.
protias said:
anyone read the article about how MS drm was cracked? oh ya, its not even realised yet. i'm almost sad to see MS lose its technology before it goes public.
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They are alledged to have gained access to proprietary source code. In the eyes of the law they are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

Considering that Microsoft has likely invested large amounts of R&D into their DRM product, it wants to sell it as much as possible. A potential customer of MS's DRM is likely to look at the fact that it's been hacked two or more times already and consider an alternative DRM instead.

Since negotiations are all about what changing the appearance of things for the counterparty, it makes a lot of sense to file a suit against the hackers, alledging that without access to the source code they could not have done it, since it makes the customer believe that MS's DRM is more secure than it may really be. Given that very few people are either rich or dumb enough to fight with MS over such a thing in court (it was filed against "John Does") just to prove that they did not, MS can bank on the fact that this case will never be heard.

Long story: just because a suit was filed, does not mean that it actually has merit, given the context.

sorry for going off topic.
 
Software based security has been and will forever be breakable. If MS really wanted to stop piracy they would implement some type of hardware based anti piracy system. Surre all the oems would have to get on board and us enthusiasts would probably be left out in the cold...but hey if you really want to stop piracy no amount of software based security is gonna stop it. Period. Countermeasures i am sure are already being deployed to counteract vistas "security" system. I will give even money that Vista is going to be a flop as far as the enthusiast market is concerned..and will do little to sell computers for the oems. A needless upgrade and a waste of money for all involved. Xp is one damn fine os in my opinion, and pretty much works 24/7 through hell and high water with crappy gear running it. (typing this on a Dell lattitude CPX p3 500, 128mg RAM, and rockin the ati rage 8mb vid system) No problems that cant be fixed in minutes, no conflicts...but i guess I am missing Aero and other "cool" features that I just wont be able to live without.


Ghettobox
 
spicey said:
I for one will be sticking with XP Professional for as long as possible. There is little Vista offers which XP doesn't do well.
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Except DX10 and DX10 games......
 
The Donut said:
As for the Vista preventative methods, despite the odd case, their anti-piracy methods will not affect you as a legit user. Even in XP, most activation problems can be solved with a simple phone call.
Click to expand...


I agree 100 %. The biggest complainers are often the non legit guys...not all, but certainly alot.
 
I got 50$ that says dx10 will make it to xp...i hardly think any developers out there will piss away the some odd 100 million xp boxes out there so they can cater to the best buy customers out ther who may get vista in ther next year or two. Makes zero sense for one single game developer to release a game that cant run on xp... dx 10...i chuckle in your general direction.

Ghettobox
 
Ghettobox said:
I got 50$ that says dx10 will make it to xp...i hardly think any developers out there will piss away the some odd 100 million xp boxes out there so they can cater to the best buy customers out ther who may get vista in ther next year or two. Makes zero sense for one single game developer to release a game that cant run on xp... dx 10...i chuckle in your general direction.

Ghettobox
Click to expand...

I think DX10 isn't going to be release for XP because of the driver model changes made to Vista. If it does get released it'll be a cut down version of DX10 hacked into XP's driver model.
 
You can play DX9 games if you have DX 8.1. You won't get all the new features but it still works. I don't see why new games wouldn't be like this with DX9 and DX10. I'm pretty sure games designed for DX10 will still work on XP. You just may not get some pretty effects.
 
I'm agreeing with almost everyone in this thread, hackers will always find a way. Isn't this "new" anti pirate measure the same that was included in windows xp? Where they give you a 30 day warning and then refuse to log you in?

Hmm, a way to block this is probably installing vista with internet disconnected, after you install a software firewall, you would make sure the MS programs that try to access the internet are denied as a basic rule, then you would connect to the internet as normal not having to worry about microsoft calling back home.

What are your thoughts on that?
 
and you think MS doesnt already do this without your knowledge? look at this site to what they have done in the last 10+ years for a bit of an education. it made me sick when first went through it. it still makes me a bit queezy to this day.
 
OLD news,

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1043376

MS has been talking about disabling features about this since i can remember.


Bottom line - it will be cracked and patched so doesnt matter.


Also, MS does not give 2 craps about joe blow at home with XP PRO cracked - what they care about is large corporations that would have spend thousandssssssssss on their software, pirating that.

MS knows if your running pirated cracked version or not, but it is not worth their time to chase down every kid who has it cracked, there is no money in it for them.

Hence as said about the GA system was to stop sellers and OEM from selling illegal copies.
 
HitmanZ said:
I'm agreeing with almost everyone in this thread, hackers will always find a way. Isn't this "new" anti pirate measure the same that was included in windows xp? Where they give you a 30 day warning and then refuse to log you in?

Hmm, a way to block this is probably installing vista with internet disconnected, after you install a software firewall, you would make sure the MS programs that try to access the internet are denied as a basic rule, then you would connect to the internet as normal not having to worry about microsoft calling back home.

What are your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...


and the o/s has a built in timer already so when you dont connect after 30 days, you get locked out anyways. Windows doesnt need to connect to check, it will shut down on it';s own, no internet needed.
 
MrGuvernment said:
and the o/s has a built in timer already so when you dont connect after 30 days, you get locked out anyways. Windows doesnt need to connect to check, it will shut down on it';s own, no internet needed.
Click to expand...

So what if you don't have internet? How is it gonna know whether it's legit or not? If it has a method of checking internally, then reverse engineering is going to get it caught, as if something has a method of checking...well then a key generator is made using the reverse process....CorrecT?
 
Simple...

DO NOT CHARGE STUPID PRICES FOR YOUR SOFTWARE!!!!

all in all the majority of ppl are faily honest but when faced with a bill for £200 just to use their PC they just bought they will go Fook-that

I have W2k legit and XP legit BUT both I waited until I could get as OEM and for £40, I only got XP something like 12months ago and while I was happy with 2k windows has been religated to gaming.


Charge £50 and you will find ppl are less likely to pirate
 
eeyrjmr said:
Simple...

DO NOT CHARGE STUPID PRICES FOR YOUR SOFTWARE!!!!

all in all the majority of ppl are faily honest but when faced with a bill for £200 just to use their PC they just bought they will go Fook-that

I have W2k legit and XP legit BUT both I waited until I could get as OEM and for £40, I only got XP something like 12months ago and while I was happy with 2k windows has been religated to gaming.


Charge £50 and you will find ppl are less likely to pirate
Click to expand...

People who are willing to steal/pirate because the price is too high are not honest. Honest people will save up the money to buy it legally, no matter the cost.
 
ryan_975 said:
People who are willing to steal/pirate because the price is too high are not honest. Honest people will save up the money to buy it legally, no matter the cost.
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Oh really? So you would save up $10000,00 for a copy of Windows if Mr. Bill said so?
 
TheNuker said:
Oh really? So you would save up $10000,00 for a copy of Windows if Mr. Bill said so?
Click to expand...

If I wanted it bad enough, then yes. But I wouldn't be foolish enough to believe that Windows would be worth $10,000, so I wouldn't buy it at all. I still wouldn't pirate it though.
 
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