$422 6800gt(bestbuy) or $435 x800xt(gateway)

agar said:
When are you going to get it through your head that these drivers are NOT WHQL CERTIFIED. Hence, all of these reviews that use them aren't doing you as a consumer any justice. I've seen this same BS happen with the NV3x and new magically released non approved whql drivers. And then realize a month later when the certified drivesr come out performance wasn't as it seems. It's fing helarious to see the same shit happen over and over, people don't seem to take any facts into consideration when buying a product. I'm not saying the 6800u is junk, I'm saying, calm the hell down and get some facts straight before jumping to conclusions.

Edit: Hey scott, from THG "Until then, the new performance leader is ATi's Radeon X800 XT Platinum Edition." That's just one review, you need me to past more?
Click to expand...

They dont have to be WHQL approved. The NV30 instance is absolutely nothing like whats going on with the NV40's. Even the new 6800u cards are shipping with the 61.34 drivers. The 60.72 drivers are nothing but betas that cripple the performance of the 6800's. If you want to go off that performance and buy the slower card just because your testing it with shit drivers go right ahead lol. I could care less. In the mean time i'll pick the new card that has alot more to work with as far as drivers goes and will continue to get faster with each driver release.
 
Anand

" With ATI's performance on par in older games and slightly ahead in newer games, the beefy power supply requirement, two slot solution, and sheer heat generated by NV40 may be too much for most people to take the NVIDIA plunge. The bottom line is the consumer here, and its good news all around."

I hope you can interpret the correct conclusion from that statement. Still want more?

Also, do you disagree that the new 61.45 are Non-WHQL certified? If you agree, why do you still base your conclusion on such drivers? You see anyone saying, "oh, the new beta cat 4.7s show that the X800 has more head room, due to their increases in x games and at x resolutions"? NO.
 
agar said:
Anand

" With ATI's performance on par in older games and slightly ahead in newer games, the beefy power supply requirement, two slot solution, and sheer heat generated by NV40 may be too much for most people to take the NVIDIA plunge. The bottom line is the consumer here, and its good news all around."

I hope you can interpret the correct conclusion from that statement. Still want more?

Also, do you disagree that the new 61.45 are Non-WHQL certified? If you agree, why do you still base your conclusion on such drivers? You see anyone saying, "oh, the new beta cat 4.7s show that the X800 has more head room, due to their increases in x games and at x resolutions"? NO.
Click to expand...

What i want is for you to post some actual performance results between the two cards using the newest drivers. If you can't do that you can't prove a thing. I've posted more then enough reviews to prove my statements. So lets see what you've got. Their drawn up conclusions mean nothing to me. The Power Supply requirement is a joke because anyone with a name brand 400w PSU can run a 6800u. Anyone that doesn't have a name brand PSU doesn't need a $500 video card to start with. The PCI slot issue is the most ignorant thing i've ever heard of. Anyone that puts a PCI card in slot #1 right up against their high end video card is a dope.

And there was just an article released that shows the beta 4.7's compared to the 4.6's bring almost no performance boost AT ALL. They are just bug fixes.
 
Why does it seem that the NVidia lovers are always making excuses like wait till the new drivers come out, or wait till DOOM 3 benchmarks show up? It just seems like there is always something thats gonna make NVidia cards kick ATIs ass, but it never happens. The gains from drivers are never that huge anyway. Its not like the huge whoopin the 9700pros gave the GF4s. The differences will be minimal at best no matter who is in the lead between these GPUs. The human eye can't even detect the difference between 100fps and 103fps.
 
Dyslexic said:
Why does it seem that the NVidia lovers are always making excuses like wait till the new drivers come out, or wait till DOOM 3 benchmarks show up? It just seems like there is always something thats gonna make NVidia cards kick ATIs ass, but it never happens. The gains from drivers are never that huge anyway. Its not like the huge whoopin the 9700pros gave the GF4s. The differences will be minimal at best no matter who is in the lead between these GPUs. The human eye can't even detect the difference between 100fps and 103fps.
Click to expand...

We aren't saying wait for anything. You are. Your saying wait till they are WHQL approved. The new drivers are already out and nVidia is getting ready to release ANOTHER update that likely bring even more performance. ATI has already proven they can't do anything in the way of large performance gains with their drivers.

A couple of years ago ATI's cards were shit compared to the nVidia competition. nVidia has been in the lead for a long time. It wasn't until the 9500 pro and 9700 pro that ATI even began to be in the running as far as i'm concerned. ATI has alot of catching up to do before they achieve what nVidia has already in the world of GPU's.
 
burningrave101 said:
What i want is for you to post some actual performance results between the two cards using the newest drivers. If you can't do that you can't prove a thing. I've posted more then enough reviews to prove my statements. So lets see what you've got. Their drawn up conclusions mean nothing to me. The Power Supply requirement is a joke because anyone with a name brand 400w PSU can run a 6800u. Anyone that doesn't have a name brand PSU doesn't need a $500 video card to start with. The PCI slot issue is the most ignorant thing i've ever heard of. Anyone that puts a PCI card in slot #1 right up against their high end video card is a dope.

And there was just an article released that shows the beta 4.7's compared to the 4.6's bring almost no performance boost AT ALL. They are just bug fixes.
Click to expand...

Thats my entire point. You are basing your opinion on drivers that aren't fucking certified. You are basing your opinion on drivers that aren't certified. There I had to say it again. You apparently are trying to avoid the obvious. If you want go read those reviews it shows the x800 beating the ultra. However, that is with the older drivers, hell, even some of those reviews used the 61.11 drivers which also weren't approved at the time. My entire point is. Hold off your opinions until shipping drivers (whql certified) and boards are used in the reviews. You guys are dancing all over the place with arguements that dont' have much validity as of yet. The reviews I posted are, dated, yet show the X800XT/PE being the superior card, as was the conclusions by their reviewers. Until we get some shipping boards, I am holding my reservations and I think some of you should to. Also, about the Cat 4.7s, go read some forums sometimes, I suggest beyond3d, you'll find your answers there.
 
burningrave101 said:
We aren't saying wait for anything. You are. Your saying wait till they are WHQL approved. The new drivers are already out and nVidia is getting ready to release ANOTHER update that likely bring even more performance. ATI has already proven they can't do anything in the way of large performance gains with their drivers.

A couple of years ago ATI's cards were shit compared to the nVidia competition. nVidia has been in the lead for a long time. It wasn't until the 9500 pro and 9700 pro that ATI even began to be in the running as far as i'm concerned. ATI has alot of catching up to do before they achieve what nVidia has already in the world of GPU's.
Click to expand...

Go bring me a link from nvidia's website showing that the official certified drivers are the ones your are porporting. 56.72 are the only ones you can D/l. Of course there are the 'leaked' drivers I think you are referring to.
 
agar said:
Thats my entire point. You are basing your opinion on drivers that aren't fucking certified. You are basing your opinion on drivers that aren't certified. There I had to say it again. You apparently are trying to avoid the obvious. If you want go read those reviews it shows the x800 beating the ultra. However, that is with the older drivers, hell, even some of those reviews used the 61.11 drivers which also weren't approved at the time. My entire point is. Hold off your opinions until shipping drivers (whql certified) and boards are used in the reviews. You guys are dancing all over the place with arguements that dont' have much validity as of yet. The reviews I posted are, dated, yet show the X800XT/PE being the superior card, as was the conclusions by their reviewers. Until we get some shipping boards, I am holding my reservations and I think some of you should to. Also, about the Cat 4.7s, go read some forums sometimes, I suggest beyond3d, you'll find your answers there.
Click to expand...

Well believe whatever you want. The 6800u is alot faster then X800XT PE in OpenGL (i.e. Call of Duty, Quake 4, Doom 3). The 6800u is faster then the X800XT PE with AA + AF turned off. And it performs just as well as the X800XT PE at high resolutions with max AA + AF on.

We dont have to wait till the drivers are WHQL certified. If something changes when they get WHQL certified and nVidia no longer gets the performance boosts they are now then so be it. But until that day comes, if it comes, the 6800u is the leader in performance right now.

And even without the drivers and stuck on beta 60.72's, the 6800u STILL is the better card because it supports Pixel Shader 3.0, Vertex Shader 3.0, 32-bit floating-point, UltraShadow II Technology, and more. A ton of new games this year are going to be supporting SM 3.0 too. This isn't a thing of the future. It will be in alot of games THIS YEAR. Alot of very popular games.

If being WHQL certified by Microsoft is the best thing you guys can come up with for a defense then you dont have much to work with lol.
 
agar said:
Go bring me a link from nvidia's website showing that the official certified drivers are the ones your are porporting. 56.72 are the only ones you can D/l. Of course there are the 'leaked' drivers I think you are referring to.
Click to expand...

If you will look on the driver page for the 56.72's you would see that those are the NV30 drivers and the 6800 series cards aren't even in the supported products list lol.

http://www.nvidia.com/content/drivers/drivers.asp

Last i heard the 60.72 drivers weren't WHQL certified ither and yet you want to go off the performance using them?? lol
 
burningrave101 said:
the 6800u is the leader in performance right now.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find many people, non-nvidiots like yourself that will take issue with that statement.
 
agar said:
I think you'll find many people, non-nvidiots like yourself that will take issue with that statement.
Click to expand...

Yea well prove me wrong. Your throughts about WHQL is pretty pointless as the reviews your wanting to compare against that show the X800XT PE in the lead are using non-WHQL 60.72 drivers IIRC.
 
burningrave101 said:
Yea well prove me wrong. Your throughts about WHQL is pretty pointless as the reviews your wanting to compare against that show the X800XT PE in the lead are using non-WHQL 60.72 drivers IIRC.
Click to expand...

Did I ever say that those were fair reviews?? Those are the only "official" reviews comparing the two. Hence that is all I have to go on.
 
agar said:
Did I ever say that those were fair reviews?? Those are the only "official" reviews comparing the two. Hence that is all I have to go on.
Click to expand...

Yes, but tell me how they are more official then the current reviews using the 61.34 drivers when BOTH are non-WHQL.
 
I want to know where people are getting these awesome deals on the X800XT PE..

Anywehre other than Gateway?
 
CDW, price match for 434.99. My entire point burninggrave people should hold off any reservations until shipping, approved WHQL drivers are released. Then you will get a full representation of performance. I agree that even the initial reviews use non approved drives which also proves that there really isn't a review that depicts the products performance in a offical light. Also, after thinking about it, doesn't it seem odd that Nvidia can't get these drivers certified after what, 2-3 months since its "offical" release??? ATI had those available during the initial batch of reviews. I just find that odd.
 
tranCendenZ said:
With the latest drivers, its like this:

Performance
6800U = x800xt > 6800GT >> X800PRO >>> 6800

Features
6800U = 6800GT = 6800 >> X800XT = X800PRO
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
From what i've seen no card takes a demanding lead over the other with the exception of the 6800's in COD and other opengl games. IMO they should be considered equal and the only choice you should have to make is which cooling solution or dvi solution works best for you, between both of them. If you guys want to argue about title of king or bragging rights go ahead, but remember what they say about arguing online. Special Olympics.
 
rhoel said:
The BB deal is $399 plus tax free shipping, or $435 free shipping and no tax.
Which one would you get? Should I consider the x800xt for a few bucks more? I currently have the 6800gt on order from Bestbuy.
Click to expand...

Guys, you are getting WAY OFF topic. The choice here is obvious, the x800 xt pe. NO contest!
 
Easy way to look at your decision is this:

If you want a low yeilding, power hungry, two slot eater, hot, two molex whore, fast as hell, unknown how it will really perform in SM3.0, and how many new hacks will appear in furture drivers, go with Nvidia.

If you want to play all current and future games that will be released in the next 12 months faster than hell in one slot, monthly drivers updates, very cool running, and very overclockable, go with ATI.

Both ATI and Nvdia are about on par with each other as far as IQ goes so it really comes down to what your expectations are. It's not that I don't like Nvidia, but I feel they bit off more than they could chew on the NV40. The true telling will be if game developers have to resort to "special" paths just for the NV40. That will tell you it doesn't have the balls to perform.
 
I just don't know how you can't go wrong with 434.99 for a XT/PE. You can argue 2-3fps here or there, but for that price you can't compete.
 
agar said:
Thats my entire point. You are basing your opinion on drivers that aren't fucking certified. You are basing your opinion on drivers that aren't certified. There I had to say it again. You apparently are trying to avoid the obvious. If you want go read those reviews it shows the x800 beating the ultra. However, that is with the older drivers, hell, even some of those reviews used the 61.11 drivers which also weren't approved at the time. My entire point is. Hold off your opinions until shipping drivers (whql certified) and boards are used in the reviews. You guys are dancing all over the place with arguements that dont' have much validity as of yet. The reviews I posted are, dated, yet show the X800XT/PE being the superior card, as was the conclusions by their reviewers. Until we get some shipping boards, I am holding my reservations and I think some of you should to. Also, about the Cat 4.7s, go read some forums sometimes, I suggest beyond3d, you'll find your answers there.
Click to expand...

it would probably just be a waste of money for nvidia to get some of their drivers WHQL certified right now since they are releasing new drivers beta drivers every few weeks. getting drivers WHQL'd has quite a fee i think, something like 250$ per OS per device. to me a certification from microsoft isnt really that big of a deal anywase.
 
Unfotunately no matter if the 6800 is faster or not I'll be sticking with ATI just because nvidia cards are terrible for HTPCs not allowing custom clock rates and frequencies.
 
well 250$ per OS per device is alot to spend for just microsoft driver certification for each new driver set considering they could pretty much save all that money ( $250 x 2/4 OS's x 50+ different video cards). It would be a good idea probably though to WHQL one driver set once they start releasing them more moderatly and are satisfied they don't deserve the beta name anymore. i doubt thats anywhere in the nearby future though
 
Damn, this thread is fan-boy infected. I think the moderators should discredit any arguments about superior performance from either house, unless the author owns "both" cards, and can provide verifiable proof and benchmarks. :eek:
 
jarman said:
Damn, this thread is fan-boy infected. I think the moderators should discredit any arguments about superior performance from either house, unless the author owns "both" cards, and can provide verifiable proof and benchmarks. :eek:
Click to expand...

I don't think it's about benchmarks as each site will give you a different answer. I'm actually suspect if the NV40 platform has that much head room left. Reading about the terribly low yeilds on this chips even makes me question it more.

Bottom line is if the 6800 series indeed performs like the marketing monsters at Nvidia claim, I will soon have one myself. Until then I am perfectly happy with a X800 Pro modded to a XT-PE.
 
MrHappyGoLucky said:
Easy way to look at your decision is this:

If you want a low yeilding, power hungry, two slot eater, hot, two molex whore, fast as hell, unknown how it will really perform in SM3.0, and how many new hacks will appear in furture drivers, go with Nvidia.

If you want to play all current and future games that will be released in the next 12 months faster than hell in one slot, monthly drivers updates, very cool running, and very overclockable, go with ATI.

Both ATI and Nvdia are about on par with each other as far as IQ goes so it really comes down to what your expectations are. It's not that I don't like Nvidia, but I feel they bit off more than they could chew on the NV40. The true telling will be if game developers have to resort to "special" paths just for the NV40. That will tell you it doesn't have the balls to perform.
Click to expand...

Low Yielding? Yea right :rolleyes:

Power Hungry? Whatever. If you can afford a $500 video card but not a descent 400w power supply then you you dont have any business upgradeing any more because your a noob. Anyone that spends that much money on a video card and runs a shitty PSU obviously needs to learn a thing or two about how the PSU is the most important piece of hardware in your system.

Two slot eater? Lets try this again for all you people that are slow in the head, who has a PCI card in slot #1 butt against their $500 video card?

Two molex whore? You dont know what your talking about. It doesn't even need the second connector for default speeds and it comes with a y-splitter.

Uknown performance with SM 3.0? Well were going to know real soon because there is a whole slew of games coming out this year that supports it. And even if the performance is unknown, better to have unknown performance then none at all!!!

And ATI has just as many hacks in their drivers as nVidia so there you go.

I'm getting really sick of argueing these same statements over and over again when people dont know what the heck their talking about and keep using the same lame excuses for getting an X800XT PE lol.

There is only ONE. I repeat ONE reason to get the X800XT PE. And that is current prices and availability. If you are hard set on having the top of the line this minute and want to save some money then get the X800XT PE. Otherwise if you want the card that supports new technology along with also being alot faster in OpenGL like Quake 4, Doom 3, and Call of Duty, then wait and pick up a 6800u or just grab a 6800GT which will overclock to ultra speeds.

I'm not trying to bash on the X800XT PE because its a great card. But other then the reason i stated i have seen no reason at all to go with it over the 6800u. And when prices and availability change here in a few weeks then there wont be a reason at all.

Most of you are just grabbing at air to try and justify the purchase of an X800XT PE over a 6800u.
 
burningrave101 said:
Those prices aren't staying that way bud. The X800XT PE is going for cheap right now as a "special offer". The MSRP on the X800XT PE is $499 just like the 6800u.
Click to expand...

Out of all the fanboys comments this one had me rolling. :D Neither company has EVER had a "special offer" on their prices coming out the gate with a new card. ROFL

Those are the current prices for x800's and they aren't going up......if anything they will go down.......you probably need to understand what MSRP stands for.......

Manufacturer's suggested retail price.....

This is no way shape or form is what they have to sell at.


Back to the question......I'd buy the x800 from Gateway.....
 
Blackwind said:
Out of all the fanboys comments this one had me rolling. :D Neither company has EVER had a "special offer" on their prices coming out the gate with a new card. ROFL

Those are the current prices for x800's and they aren't going up......if anything they will go down.......you probably need to understand what MSRP stands for.......

Manufacturer's suggested retail price.....

This is no way shape or form is what they have to sell at.


Back to the question......I'd buy the x800 from Gateway.....
Click to expand...

I never said the company had a special offer. I said the places like Gateway and CDW are selling them at cut prices ("special offers"). If you will look at the prices at Newegg you will see that even the price on the X800Pro is well over its MSRP.

And anyone that orders from Gateway deserves to be ripped off. Obviously you havn't read all the threads out there recently concerning the X800XT PE and Gateway.
 
there is a very simple reason that there are no WHQL drivers for the 6800 series, they are still betas and aren't done yet, so spending the 70k it costs to get them WHQL'd by microsoft is rediculous. plus add the time that it takes for MS to complete the WHQL tests, and it becomes even more rediculous considering how often NV has been releasing new Beta builds, add to that the fact that the drivers are still beta and probably wouldn't pass WHQL and you see why NV has no WHQL 60 series drivers.
 
What are the differences between X880XT, 6800U, and X800pro??

What are the differences?
 
MrHappyGoLucky said:
Both ATI and Nvdia are about on par with each other as far as IQ goes so it really comes down to what your expectations are. It's not that I don't like Nvidia, but I feel they bit off more than they could chew on the NV40. The true telling will be if game developers have to resort to "special" paths just for the NV40. That will tell you it doesn't have the balls to perform.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

There are no special paths for the NV40, there was one for the NV30 in Far Cry [so just force the R300 path or wait until patch 1.2, your choice], and Carmack removed the NV path from D3 a while back [all cards defualt to ABR2]. Now...are you through spreading FUD or would you like to have another go at it? Who knows, you might just get lucky and vaguely give the impression that you have a clue.
 
burningrave101 said:
I never said the company had a special offer. I said the places like Gateway and CDW are selling them at cut prices ("special offers"). If you will look at the prices at Newegg you will see that even the price on the X800Pro is well over its MSRP.

And anyone that orders from Gateway deserves to be ripped off. Obviously you havn't read all the threads out there recently concerning the X800XT PE and Gateway.
Click to expand...

That was a direct quote from you burningrave101. That was not an adjustment of your comment in the least. Yes...I have read the threads. What happened with Gateway was an accident....not a special offer or an attempt to sell them at cutthroat prices. CDW is selling them at what they feel to be market value...again....not a special offer or cutthroat prices.

It's not hard to simply admit it.....ATI has an advantage when it comes down to price... its that simple.

bh0pP said:
What are the differences between X880XT, 6800U, and X800pro??

What are the differences?
Click to expand...

A lot. I'd suggest you spend sometime reading through the various threads already here. This thread was addressing a direct question....

$422 6800gt(bestbuy) or $435 x800xt(gateway)
 
bh0pP said:
aren't you guys going to answer me?
Click to expand...

Try looking through this thread or look for a review comparing these two cards. The major differences are pretty self explanatory.
 
Blackwind said:
That was a direct quote from you burningrave101. That was not an adjustment of your comment in the least. Yes...I have read the threads. What happened with Gateway was an accident....not a special offer or an attempt to sell them at cutthroat prices. CDW is selling them at what they feel to be market value...again....not a special offer or cutthroat prices.

It's not hard to simply admit it.....ATI has an advantage when it comes down to price... its that simple.
Click to expand...

Yea and where in that direct quote did i mention a word about it being a "special offer" from the companys themselves?

And i never said ATI didn't have an advantage right now in prices because of the limited availability of the 6800u and 6800GT. What i said is that prices are not going to stay the way they are. Sites like Newegg and ZipZoomFly are not going to sell X800XT PE's for $430 when their MSRP is $499. Newegg is just about the cheapest place to shop online and prices are well over $400 for an X800Pro MSRP $399.

Why dont you go do a little quick search on pricewatch and see what you find for the X800Pro. I just did and the cheapest it found was $410. $10 more then the MSRP.

And then after you get done with that go and search for X800XT PE on pricewatch and see what you fine. The cheapest is $499 which is the MSRP.

http://www.pricewatch.com/

A few sites are offering the X800Pro's and X800XT PE's at cut prices ("special offers") but you can bet they wont offer them that price for very long.

nVidia couldn't even sell their cards if the X800's were $100 cheaper. What your seeing now will change in the next few weeks.

ATI is probably giving Gateway or some of these othe sites special deals on the cards.
 
burningrave101 said:
Yea and where in that direct quote did i mention a word about it being a "special offer" from the companys themselves?

And i never said ATI didn't have an advantage right now in prices because of the limited availability of the 6800u and 6800GT. What i said is that prices are not going to stay the way they are. Sites like Newegg and ZipZoomFly are not going to sell X800XT PE's for $430 when their MSRP is $499. Newegg is just about the cheapest place to shop online and prices are well over $400 for an X800Pro MSRP $399.

Why dont you go do a little quick search on pricewatch and see what you find for the X800Pro. I just did and the cheapest it found was $410. $10 more then the MSRP.

And then after you get done with that go and search for X800XT PE on pricewatch and see what you fine. The cheapest is $499 which is the MSRP.

http://www.pricewatch.com/

A few sites are offering the X800Pro's and X800XT PE's at cut prices ("special offers") but you can bet they wont offer them that price for very long.

nVidia couldn't even sell their cards if the X800's were $100 cheaper. What your seeing now will change in the next few weeks.

ATI is probably giving Gateway or some of these othe sites special deals on the cards.
Click to expand...

Which is good for the consumer (like me and you), so go out and buy a x800 xt pe already, its much cheaper than a 6800 ultra. Stop complaining.
 
if i get the money ill be getting a 6800GT just because it can be oced to a 500$+ card and it has all those new nifty features - although i am a big ati man :cool:
 
trungracingdev said:
Which is good for the consumer (like me and you), so go out and buy a x800 xt pe already, its much cheaper than a 6800 ultra. Stop complaining.
Click to expand...

I think i'll just wait another week or two and pick up a 6800GT which will OC to ultra speeds and support all the new features that the X800XT PE does not. Plus the fact a stock 6800GT may end up being faster then an X800XT PE in Doom 3 if the numbers are correct lol.

Heck, maybe i will get lucky and some site will offer the 6800u for $430. I would be all over that!!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top