$422 6800gt(bestbuy) or $435 x800xt(gateway)

[Dyslexic]

We aren't saying wait for anything. You are. Your saying wait till they are WHQL approved. The new drivers are already out and nVidia is getting ready to release ANOTHER update that likely bring even more performance. ATI has already proven they can't do anything in the way of large performance gains with their drivers.

A couple of years ago ATI's cards were shit compared to the nVidia competition. nVidia has been in the lead for a long time. It wasn't until the 9500 pro and 9700 pro that ATI even began to be in the running as far as i'm concerned. ATI has alot of catching up to do before they achieve what nVidia has already in the world of GPU's.

I never said anything about the drivers being WHQL. Yes its true that NVidia used to crush ATI, and I had NVidia cards until the 9700pro came along. If you think all the 9700pro did was put them in the running then you are the biggest fanboy of them all. The 9700pro was such a step forward that it took NVidia totaly by surprise. They had nothing that could compete with it for a year. That however is history and in PC hardware its what have you done for me lately. ATI is still right at the top and finally getting some compitition from NVidia. As for the drivers who the hell ever said that ATI can get no preformance gains from thier drivers? What NVidia makes the only GPU that benifits from new drivers? Are you nuts? Can't you just admit they both make good cards.

By the way whats the deal with this from Driverheaven?

"A week ago we published some results showing the 6800 Ultra running the default DirectX path which removes the Nvidia specific optimisations from the game and also improves the image quality by increasing the use of pixel shader 2.0. Additionally the default DirectX 9 path fixes the flickering textures and other graphical glitches experienced at the default settings for the 6800 Ultra Included in the next graph are the 6800 Ultra results to show how they compare to the X800 (which runs the normal directX path – i.e. full quality by default).

In Farcry the results show the 6800Ultra and X800 pro as reasonably well matched. Not much separates them without AA/AF when the 6800 Ultra is running the lower quality Nvidia path. When running the default directX9 path the 6800 ultra does however fall behind the X800 Pro – especially in minimum fps. Turning on AA/AF and the X800 Pro again shows its strength and remains playable where as the 6800 Ultra has a few big drops to 10fps."

 

[Blackwind]

Which is good for the consumer (like me and you), so go out and buy a x800 xt pe already, its much cheaper than a 6800 ultra. Stop complaining.

Amen..


burningrave101 you are simply attempting to dance around the fact that ATI has a winning product with not only a great price but performance to boot. The 6800 is a great new product. But if I'm going to slap down over $400 for top of the line....why on earth would I pay anywhere from $100-150 more for a 6800 Ultra? That's always been one of ATI's great points on their products.


Price.

If nVidia can offer there 6800 Ultra at $450.00 I'd snap one up in a heart beat. I don't see that happening......especially with their present issues with actually getting them out.....

 

[Dyslexic]

Amen..


burningrave101 you are simply attempting to dance around the fact that ATI has a winning product with not only a great price but performance to boot. The 6800 is a great new product. But if I'm going to slap down over $400 for top of the line....why on earth would I pay anywhere from $100-150 more for a 6800 Ultra? That's always been one of ATI's great points on their products..

RIGHT ON!!! Thats what I've been saying.

 

[burningrave101]

I never said anything about the drivers being WHQL. Yes its true that NVidia used to crush ATI, and I had NVidia cards until the 9700pro came along. If you think all the 9700pro did was put them in the running then you are the biggest fanboy of them all. The 9700pro was such a step forward that it took NVidia totaly by surprise. They had nothing that could compete with it for a year. That however is history and in PC hardware its what have you done for me lately. ATI is still right at the top and finally getting some compitition from NVidia. As for the drivers who the hell ever said that ATI can get no preformance gains from thier drivers? What NVidia makes the only GPU that benifits from new drivers? Are you nuts? Can't you just admit they both make good cards

Ok first, i never said the 9700 pro just put ATI in the running. I said that ATI has alot of catching up to do before they ever accomplish what nVidia has done in the way of GPU's over the years. nVidia has a total screw up with their NV30 cores and ATI took the lead then. ATI is doing very well now also with their X800 cores. But from all the performance results i have seen using the new drivers, the NV40 and the new technology it supports is the better card.

I also never said ATI cannot get ANY performance gains from their drivers. What i said is that ATI is not been able to get HUGE performance gains from their drivers like nVidia has. nVidia just got done completely turning their NV30 cores around late last fall with their drivers and they were actually finally very competitive, even in DX9 games.

Everyone is going off the performance of the early reviews using the 60.72 drivers which are not WHQL approved ither and were just part of the first wave of beta drivers. They were horrible in terms of performance. nVidia has since rectified the problem with the latest drivers and will most likely continue to increase the performance of the 6800 cores with each new driver release.

The reason i say ATI has done very little with their drivers in terms of performance is that i've seen several Catalyst comparison reviews and there were only very small performance gains between each driver set over a span of 6-8 releases.

 

[burningrave101]

Amen..


burningrave101 you are simply attempting to dance around the fact that ATI has a winning product with not only a great price but performance to boot. The 6800 is a great new product. But if I'm going to slap down over $400 for top of the line....why on earth would I pay anywhere from $100-150 more for a 6800 Ultra? That's always been one of ATI's great points on their products.

Simply because the 6800u is the better card because of its features and performance and overclockability and the prices your seeing on a handful of sites is not the image of the prices for even half of the sites. It was just luck that Gateway and a couple others are selling the X800XT PE's as cheap as they are because all of the other sites on the internet are selling them well over their MSRP. Most likely the reason why there havn't been any hot deals on the 6800u's is because of availability for the moment.

And after the performance results come out for Doom 3 and other games that support SM 3.0, you might just very well wish you had thrown down an extra $70 for a 6800u when you were already spending $430.

 

[Dyslexic]

Ok first, i never said the 9700 pro just put ATI in the running. I said that ATI has alot of catching up to do before they ever accomplish what nVidia has done in the way of GPU's over the years. nVidia has a total screw up with their NV30 cores and ATI took the lead then. ATI is doing very well now also with their X800 cores. But from all the performance results i have seen using the new drivers, the NV40 and the new technology it supports is the better card.

I also never said ATI cannot get ANY performance gains from their drivers. What i said is that ATI is not been able to get HUGE performance gains from their drivers like nVidia has. nVidia just got done completely turning their NV30 cores around late last fall with their drivers and they were actually finally very competitive, even in DX9 games.

Everyone is going off the performance of the early reviews using the 60.72 drivers which are not WHQL approved ither and were just part of the first wave of beta drivers. They were horrible in terms of performance. nVidia has since rectified the problem with the latest drivers and will most likely continue to increase the performance of the 6800 cores with each new driver release.

The reason i say ATI has done very little with their drivers in terms of performance is that i've seen several Catalyst comparison reviews and there were only very small performance gains between each driver set over a span of 6-8 releases.

Hey man I think you need to go back and read your own posts.

" It wasn't until the 9500 pro and 9700 pro that ATI even began to be in the running as far as i'm concerned."

 

[jacuzz1]

Both cards are fabulous but since I get a new card every six months or so I am not willing to pay for features I dont need right now.

 

[burningrave101]

Hey man I think you need to go back and read your own posts.

" It wasn't until the 9500 pro and 9700 pro that ATI even began to be in the running as far as i'm concerned."

And your point is?

nVidia had had the lead for a long time and ATI just finally started to take the lead with the 9500 pro and 9700 pro. They had just began to be in the running and actually competitive against the top tier nVidia.

Do i need to repeat it again?

Both cards are fabulous but since I get a new card every six months or so I am not willing to pay for features I dont need right now.

SM 3.0 will be implemented in quite a few games long before 6 months from now i'm sure and the OpenGL games like Doom 3 will likely perform a whole lot better on an NV40.

This isn't FUTURE tech. This is "the next 2-3 months tech".

NV40 also has UltraShadow II Technology which is in Doom 3.

 

[Blackwind]

I said that ATI has alot of catching up to do before they ever accomplish what nVidia has done in the way of GPU's over the years.

Catching up? LOL

They lapped them on the playing field the last two releases running....

9700 Round 1 ....Winner!

9800 Round 2 ....Winner!

Anyone has some redemption to do or "catching up"....it's nVidia. I mean really...that little do hicky to force tri that nVidia now has in their control panel.....you think that got there by accident? It was direct response to them getting banged over the head by users, hardware review sites, vendors and grandmothers who know a thing or two about vid cards.






Ok...maybe not the grandmothers.


nVidia appears to be back on track but I think you are wearing blinders if you can't see the accomplishments of ATI. no shame is simply saying...nVidia got their butts handed to them and now they are putting more GREAT effort to make amends. More power to em and I as a consumer have more options......

And after the performance results come out for Doom 3 and other games that support SM 3.0, you might just very well wish you had thrown down an extra $70 for a 6800u when you were already spending $430.

LOL. So now everyone should wait till Doom 3 to decide eh? the life buoy is right in front of you....it has ATI written on it.

Stop flaying the excuses already.

 

[burningrave101]

Catching up? LOL

They lapped them on the playing field the last two releases running....

9700 Round 1 ....Winner!

9800 Round 2 ....Winner!

Anyone has some redemption to do or "catching up"....it's nVidia. I mean really...that little do hicky to force tri that nVidia now has in their control panel.....you think that got there by accident? It was direct response to them getting banged over the head by users, hardware review sites, vendors and grandmothers who know a thing or two about vid cards.

The 9700 pro and 9800 pro are both R300 cores. The NV30 cores were where ATI took the lead on nVidia because they were very poor performers until the 59XX cores. After nVidia's driver update in the fall the 59XX cores were just as good as the 9800 pro's.

Thats one series bud. Noone can deny the great high performance cards ATI has put out over the last two years but two years does not just diminish all the years they sucked so horribly against the nVidia cards.

LOL. So now everyone should wait till Doom 3 to decide eh? the life buoy is right in front of you....it has ATI written on it.

Stop flaying the excuses already.

Hey you wanna stick with ATI at all costs then go right ahead. I'm just trying to get the facts out there for all the nOObs that aren't already lost into believing the X800XT PE is going to do anything and everything the 6800u will be able to do in upcoming games.

And we dont have to wait for Doom 3 and the new games that are going to support SM 3.0 this year. The NV40 is already the faster card with the current 61.34 drivers.

The performance in OpenGL alone outweighs any measly 1-5 fps you might get extra out of the X800XT PE with 4x AA + 16x AF enabled at 1600x1200 in certain games lol.

There are a lot of reasons to get a 6800u and very few to get the X800XT PE instead. If your paying over $430 already, i dont think $70 will break the bank for the better card.

And if everyone would just have a little patience, i really expect prices to line out on both the X800's and 6800's in the next two or three weeks.

I'm going to grab a GT as soon as they hit places like Newegg most likely.

 

[ozziegn]

any business that has a store located in the same state as a person buying something from their company must charge state tax.

umm, thats not always true.

case in point:

Ritz Camera.com doesnt charge sales tax to us in FL but yet there are Ritz retail stores everywhere around here.

go figure.

 

[burningrave101]

Something else i'm wondering about is overclocking potential. How high of overclocks are people getting on average for their X800XT PE?

The 6800u overclocks to around 470/1200 on certain models. The XFX gets a little higher.

Thats a 70Mhz increase on the core and a 100Mhz increase on the RAM.

 

[jacuzz1]

I don't beleive that Doom 3 would be designed to proclude the use of the number one selling video subsystem on the planet. It would be bad business. Of course if performance is not where I want it in 2 or 3 months then I will buy an Ultra, assuming its available lol

 

[Blackwind]

The 9700 pro and 9800 pro are both R300 cores. The NV30 cores were where ATI took the lead on nVidia because they were very poor performers until the 59XX cores. After nVidia's driver update in the fall the 59XX cores were just as good as the 9800 pro's.

Thats one series bud. Noone can deny the great high performance cards ATI has put out over the last two years but two years does not just diminish all the years they sucked so horribly against the nVidia cards.



Hey you wanna stick with ATI at all costs then go right ahead. I'm just trying to get the facts out there for all the nOObs that aren't already lost into believe the X800XT PE is going to do anything and everything the 6800u will be able to do.

You are clearly fooling yourself. Where did I mention anything about core variances? Ahh..thats right......I didn't. This had me cracking up.

"ATI took the lead on nVidia because they were very poor performers until the 59XX cores"

The FX blew. It took them a long time to begin to gain their balance after that one punch knockout. Where did I state anything about "sticking with ATI" ........nice try. You're the fanboy...not I. Those are not facts...they lean towards something called FUD. For "Noone being able to deny the great high performance cards ATI has put out" you can't seem to admit the x800 is a great purchase. From where I stand yes...the x800XT PE IS everything the 6800u is......and MORE.

The 6800u has several obstacles to overcome prior to being all it can be....

A) Availability.....you have to be able to BUY the damn thing.
B) Proven capability. Presently they have not proven to be just as capable in AA and AF as ATI. They are scrambling with drivers. (and making good ground from what I can see...they aren't done yet.....I don't buy half baked products)
C) Proven use of PS 3.0
D) PRICE.

these aren't small hurdles.

 

[burningrave101]

You are clearly fooling yourself. Where did I mention anything about core variances? Ahh..thats right......I didn't. This had me cracking up.

Well it shouldn't have you cracking up because your the one that acted like the 9700 pro and 9800 pro were two totally different era's. If nVidia had done well with their NV30 it would of been like me saying that nVidia blew ATI away with their FX 5800 and then again with their FX 5900.

The FX blew. It took them a long time to begin to gain their balance after that one punch knockout. Where did I state anything about "sticking with ATI" ........nice try. You're the fanboy...not I. Those are not facts...they lean towards something called FUD. For "Noone being able to deny the great high performance cards ATI has put out" you can't seem to admit the x800 is a great purchase. From where I stand yes...the x800XT PE IS everything the 6800u is......and MORE.

Yea right lol. Yea your not an ATI fanboy. You've just been going on about ATI non stop this whole thread, reaching for the skys for reasons to get the X800XT PE and not a 6800u even though the 6800u is the better card in performance and technology. If your only reason is a $70 price difference its not a very good one.

Just you saying the X800XT PE is everything the 6800u is and more proves it. Because other then price it has no great advantage over the 6800u. It has nothing in the way of new technology.

The 6800u has several obstacles to overcome prior to being all it can be....

A) Availability.....you have to be able to BUY the damn thing.
B) Proven capability. Presently they have not proven to be just as capable in AA and AF as ATI. They are scrambling with drivers. (and making good ground from what I can see...they aren't done yet.....I don't buy half baked products)
C) Proven use of PS 3.0
D) PRICE.

A.) Yes availability currently is a problem but most likely wont be much longer.
B) They already proved it with the 61.34 drivers. There is nothing left to prove.
C) There is nothing to prove there ither. Even if the performance increase is minimal its more then the NOTHING you will get from the X800XT PE.
D) There are 6800u's available for $499 which is its MSRP. You can't find an X800XT PE for cheaper then that at many reputable places ither unless you want to order from Gateway.

I dont have a problem saying the X800Pro and X800XT PE are both great cards and compete against the 6800's very strongly and are a worthy purchase for a new video card.

I do have a problem with saying its a better purchase then the 6800's when there just aren't good enough reasons to pick it over the 6800.

 

[agar]

Something else i'm wondering about is overclocking potential. How high of overclocks are people getting on average for their X800XT PE?

The 6800u overclocks to around 470/1200 on certain models. The XFX gets a little higher.

Thats a 70Mhz increase on the core and a 100Mhz increase on the RAM.

Look around, read forums. I've seen up to 678/615 on water. Not bad. Of course with the X800 you won't need to have a 1gigawatt PSU to overclock unlike the NV40 which requires a high quality 400W PSU in order to do so. Your arguments are all based on speculation, 'beta' unofficial drivers, which may or may not be using game optimizations and hearsay regarding SM3.0. It's pretty much a fact that it does not improve image quality as when compared to SM2.0, even the farcry devs admitted that. There is also no proven benefit in current game tech so why jump on something that hasn't currently shown its benefits. Also, regarding drivers, everyone knows Nvidia's driver tricks that were used before, who knows if they are there now. Thats why WHQL is essential. I just dont understand how ATI has WHQL certified drivers consistently, even during the X800 release, however Nvidia's NV40 that was released a month+ before the X800 still can't seem to get those WHQL'd? You keep avoiding the blatantly obvious conclusion, both are good products and show benefits in different areas.

Also, if you wan't to see the benefit of 3Dc in Serious Sam 2, check out this pic

 

[burningrave101]

You keep avoiding the blatantly obvious conclusion, both are good products and show benefits in different areas.

I dont keep avoiding that. Never once have i said the X800Pro or X800XT PE wasn't a good product or a worthy competitor. What i have been doing is pointing out the obvious reasons why the 6800 is a better choice if your going to throw down this kind of money on a video card.

nVidia will get their drivers worked out and WHQL approved before long as they always have in the past and the NV40 cores are looking absolutely nothing like the NV30 fiasco.

Plain and simple, the NV40 supports new technology and the X800XT PE does not. Whether or not that new technology amounts to a hill of beans is yet to be seen but i would rather have a chance at increased performance and visuals from new technology then have nothing at all with the X800XT PE.

 

[agar]

Did you see my pic? Also, Gabe Newell said valve will be using 3Dc so how is that not useable new technology? You keep parroting the Nvidia marketing machines.

 

[burningrave101]

Did you see my pic? Also, Gabe Newell said valve will be using 3Dc so how is that not new technology? You keep parroting the Nvidia marketing machines.

the thing about 3dc is that everything that can be done with 3dc can and almost certanly will have a DXT5 fallback at minimal performance/ IQ difference. They are just forms of Normal Map compression, and If a developer is including 3dc normal maps they will almost certainly include DXT5 ones for all the cards that don't support 3DC. ATI was pushing for DXT5 compressed normal maps last year, before they Anounced 3DC. (they published a paper on the topic last fall) Besides, despite the fact that the idea has been around for a while, no one has made a game with DXT5 compressed normal maps, 3DC, a rather small improvement over DXT5, fills the same role and requires about the same amount of work by the developer and outputs similar results, so I don't see what will make developers any more likely to adopt it over DXT5.

A quote by Merlin45 in this thread here -

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=769310&page=2&pp=20

 

[agar]

Yeah, I've read that. Here is another thread at beyond3d debating 3dc from front to back. I've seen people with merlins point of view regarding DXT5 and other reasons why 3Dc is better. Keep em comming.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12160

"compression techniques that give the best compression for the type of texture you are trying to compress (eg. 3DC for normal maps) and then have a fall-back to the next-best standardised compression technique if that's not available (eg. DXT5). As long as it's not a pain for devs, this seems the best solution for the majority of the gaming public."

 

[Drakensoul]

http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/nv40r420p2/5

6800U vs. X800XTPE..

 

[burningrave101]

Yeah, I've read that. Here is another thread at beyond3d debating 3dc from front to back. I've seen people with merlins point of view regarding DXT5 and other reasons why 3Dc is better. Keep em comming.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12160

"compression techniques that give the best compression for the type of texture you are trying to compress (eg. 3DC for normal maps) and then have a fall-back to the next-best standardised compression technique if that's not available (eg. DXT5). As long as it's not a pain for devs, this seems the best solution for the majority of the gaming public."

I dont plan to keep em comming because this is an endless debate that cannot be settled. 3Dc is only slightly better then DXT5 and game developers aren't even bothering to use DXT5.

3Dc is nothing compared to the support for Pixel Shader 3.0, Vertex Shader 3.0, 32-bit floating-point, and UltraShadow II Technology.

Both the 6800u and X800XT PE are great cards but i still stand on the fact the 6800u has better future compatibility.

 

[burningrave101]

http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/nv40r420p2/5

6800U vs. X800XTPE..

Yea i was just in the process of reading that review. It looks like they used pre 61.34 drivers because their results are nothing like the other reviews out and i dont see where they even mentioned what version they used. This just makes for another pointless review if they did.

And from the looks of Call of Duty which is OpenGL, i can pretty much say it for certain lol.

 

[agar]

I agree with many of your points, but still feel nothing can be shown to have any benefit until games that utilize your aformentioned features start shipping and that if they do use them that they provide some benefit to the gamer, rather than as a marketing gimmick.

 

[burningrave101]

Here is a review covering the power concumption of the 6800u vs a 9800XT. It gives an in-depth look at how much power is needed for each. They used a multimeter to do the testing so it should be pretty accurate.

http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/6800upower

You will notice that the 6800U draws no more current on the 5 volt line than the 9800 XT. This means that the 12 volt rating of your power supply is the only specification you have to worry about. The 400watt PSU that I use in our Pentium 4 test bed can supply 18 amps on the 12 volt line and it coped fine without running too hot or having any reliability problems. I also tested the card in an Athlon XP machine, which has a 350watt PSU that supplies 13 amps at 12 volts. This also ran fine, perhaps in part due to the fact that the slightly elderly Athlon draws less current on the 12 volt line than a Pentium 4.

As long as your PSU can handle the 60w requirement on the 12v line your not going to have a problem running a 6800u.

 

[tranCendenZ]

3Dc is nothing compared to the support for Pixel Shader 3.0, Vertex Shader 3.0, 32-bit floating-point, and UltraShadow II Technology.

Truth (except its fp32/128-bit)

 

[maxxo]

any business that has a store located in the same state as a person buying something from their company must charge state tax.

umm, thats not always true.

case in point:

Ritz Camera.com doesnt charge sales tax to us in FL but yet there are Ritz retail stores everywhere around here.

go figure.

doesn't florida not have sales tax?

 

[Drakensoul]

Florida has sales tax, but no state income tax.

 

[Spank]

there is a very simple reason that there are no WHQL drivers for the 6800 series, they are still betas and aren't done yet, so spending the 70k it costs to get them WHQL'd by microsoft is rediculous. plus add the time that it takes for MS to complete the WHQL tests, and it becomes even more rediculous considering how often NV has been releasing new Beta builds, add to that the fact that the drivers are still beta and probably wouldn't pass WHQL and you see why NV has no WHQL 60 series drivers.

the cost to get a whql cert is $250 for each product and OS. You do the testing yourself and send the logs to microsoft for reviewing, it should take about a week.

So i think we can say for sure that the reason they dont have one is cause it wont pass.

 

[trungracingdev]

Here is a review covering the power concumption of the 6800u vs a 9800XT. It gives an in-depth look at how much power is needed for each. They used a multimeter to do the testing so it should be pretty accurate.

http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/6800upower



As long as your PSU can handle the 60w requirement on the 12v line your not going to have a problem running a 6800u.

The point is, NO ONE has to worry about psu problems when buying the new ati cards. Of course you can compensate for that by buying another psu, but thats not the scenario for some buyers (mostly small form factor users).

 

[maxxo]

Florida has sales tax, but no state income tax.

oops lol. my mistake

well ritzcamera.com might be doing something illegal then .

 

[agar]

Interesting how alienware still has the forced power suppy upgrade when you select the 6800U. Even though Nvidia removed the 480W PSU requirement, they are still forcing it. Either they don't trust nvidia or they want the extra mula when upgrading to a 650W PSU.

 

[maxxo]

the cost to get a whql cert is $250 for each product and OS. You do the testing yourself and send the logs to microsoft for reviewing, it should take about a week.

So i think we can say for sure that the reason they dont have one is cause it wont pass.

personally i could care less if the cards fail under theoretical benchmarks made specifically to exploit flaws in the card's drivers. as long as there are minimal problems in real world games i would be satisfied, but thats just me.

 

[agar]

I tend to care if the manufacturer of the card is inflating its scores in order to have the upper hand, especially considering that the card doesn't perform the same during ingame play as compared to the benchmarks. That's just me.

 

[burningrave101]

The point is, NO ONE has to worry about psu problems when buying the new ati cards. Of course you can compensate for that by buying another psu, but thats not the scenario for some buyers (mostly small form factor users).

That may be true but if your not one of those persons running less then a name brand 350w then there is no point in making that an issue of whether or not to buy one. Everyone keeps bringing up the power issue as being one of the negatives of the 6800u and i bet there is hardly a single one of you that has less then a 350w PSU installed. So to continuously bring it up is a bit ironic in the fact that very few of you will have an issue thats needs addressing.

Most likely ATI will increase their transistor count in their next release this fall or whenever and when they do its likely it will draw as much power as the 6800u. Your better off just keeping your power supply upgraded above all else because it can wreck your whole system if its not good quality and able to supply sufficient power. The more transistors that they pack into the GPU core the more power its going to draw. nVidia has 220 million in the 6800u compared to the X800XT PE which only has 160 million.

 

[jarman]

http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/nv40r420p2/5

6800U vs. X800XTPE..

Damn, that pic of the dual slot 6800U really bothers me. I'm sorry, but a dual slot AGP card wreaks of poor thermal engineering.

You can bitch all you want about actual PCI slot usage, but when your main competitor is a one slot solution with several million fewer transistors, you have to really question the EOR.

 

[maxxo]

I tend to care if the manufacturer of the card is inflating its scores in order to have the upper hand, especially considering that the card doesn't perform the same during ingame play as compared to the benchmarks. That's just me.

are you saying just rising benchmark scores and not actualy gameplay that's not what i was referring to

 

[burningrave101]

Damn, that pic of the dual slot 6800U really bothers me. I'm sorry, but a dual slot AGP card wreaks of poor thermal engineering.

You can bitch all you want about actual PCI slot usage, but when your main competitor is a one slot solution with several million fewer transistors, you have to really question the EOR.

Then buy a 6800GT, overclock it to ultra speeds, and you'll have a single slot ultra that you can't bitch about.

There are board makers that intend to release a single slot version of the 6800u. I believe Asus is one of them.

In a way, being a dual slot card is a good thing. It forces the people that dont know any better to use slot #2 instead of #1 as their first PCI slot and thus gives their card the proper breathing room it needs. I bet there are plenty of people right here on HardOCP that just stick something right in slot #1 no matter how many slots they have and cause their card to run hotter then it should.

 

[Visable-assassin]

it is rare to get brand new tech for less than the MSRP.

Your calling a core based on the r300 new tech

. Yes its true that NVidia used to crush ATI,

Just to nit pick
If ATi would have never bought Artx they would still be getting their asses handed to them. The r300 was not designed by ATi it was a different company.

that little do hicky to force tri that nVidia now has in their control panel.....

well at least Nvidia allows to turn off optimazations where as ATi you gotta hack your registry...and once you do that you lose what 10-20% performance?


Either way both compaines offer awsome cards on both sides, price points aside. Bitching about how someone spends their money is just plain stupid. Ill be buying a 6800U from BFG this new core shows some promise and you cant go wrong with it.

 

[jarman]

Then buy a 6800GT, overclock it to ultra speeds, and you'll have a single slot ultra that you can't bitch about.

There lies the problem doesn't it? The 6800GT has to be able to pull off the 50MHz core overclock in order to stand toe-to-toe with the 6800U without exceeding the thermal capacity of it's heat sink, but then again what OC heights will the 6800U overclock to?

If the retail 6800GT pulls this off well, and is priced effectively in the midrange somehow, could this be the enthusiast card for the near future with all 16 pipelines intact? Time will tell...