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$422 6800gt(bestbuy) or $435 x800xt(gateway)
- Thread starter rhoel
- Start date
It's funny how you tout one second an "advantage".....
To completely change your fiddle playing to state the below....
Neither card performed badly.
They simply didn't show a significant boost over present AGP....wasn't a suprise.
He can't see that...he's blind.....
burningrave101 said:
To completely change your fiddle playing to state the below....
burningrave101 said:
Neither card performed badly.
They simply didn't show a significant boost over present AGP....wasn't a suprise.
Dyslexic said:
He can't see that...he's blind.....
burningrave101
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Dyslexic said:
I think you need to read that article again lol.
Lets try this again.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=13
X2 - 6800u wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=14
Halo - X800XT PE wins 1600x1200 w/ no AA + 8x AF enabled.
AA was not enabled. nVidia is stronger at AA then ATI. Same as ATI is stronger at AF.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=15
Wolfenstein - 6800u wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=16
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy - 6800u wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=17
UT2004 - X800XT PE wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=18
Far Cry - X800XT PE wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=20
Homeworld 2 - Both cards are tied at 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=21
F1 Challenge - 6800u wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=22
Neverwinter Nights - 6800u wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=23
EVE - X800XT PE wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=24
Warcraft III - 6800u wins 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled.
Notice the 5 fps and less lead of the X800XT PE in all its wins at 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled. Are you trying to tell me thats more important then support for pixel shader 3.0, vertex shader 3.0, 32-bit floating-point, and UltraShadow II Technology? Not to mention the advantage in OpenGL and Linux?
I guess i would have better luck trying to argue with a rock.
Blackwind said:
Oh yea, I'm blind lol. I'm not the one thats making up stuff and saying its in the article when its not.
Blackwind said:
Well i dont know what your opinion is but if the PCI-E cards can't even perform as well as the AGP 8x cards then thats performing badly considering they are suppost to perform as well or better. Not worse. And like i said before, its likely a current PCI-E driver issue.
burningrave101 said:
Did you bother to read what he stated? Like Dyslexic I don't bother to even look at no aa or af stats......I buy a card to actually use the features......
burningrave101 said:
Your "measuring stick" needs work.
Here is a short list of tech that didn't perform as expected out the gate....
Hyper Threading
SATA
Last I checked no one ever claimed they performed "badly." PCI is not something to sit there and claim to be an nVidia advantage....its a technology available to both.....
burningrave101
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Blackwind said:
Yea and thats why i ONLY listed the 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF results. I didn't list anything else. And i dont see the X800XT PE beating anything with AA + AF enabled like the rest of you seem to claim. Taking a 5 FPS or less lead with 4x AA + 8x AF in certain games is not enough to make the X800XT PE a better card. Not when the 6800u supports more features and performs identically if not better.
In those benches at 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled, the 6800u won 6, the X800XT PE 4, and 1 tie.
The X800XT PE doesn't suck in any way shape or form. Totally badass awesome card. All i'm saying is the 6800u is better from my point of view.
And if the X800XT PE is better and all you care about is AA + AF, then why are you looking to buy a 6800 Blackwind?
I dont have to say anything. You guys defeat yourselves in your own posts.
burningrave101 said:
Matter of opinion. Yours.
burningrave101 said:
See...this what you can't seem to get through your thick head burningrave101.
I'm not a fanboy.
When did I state the X800XT PE was a better card? Lets take that a step further....when have I stated the 6800u was the better card? Oh...that's RIGHT......I haven't. You see....I, unlike you, can look at the big picture and see options. You see....."the enemy ATI." I'm defeated because I don't choose to be a mindless robot spewing propoganda for nvidia or ati?
Please.
I chose to buy a 6800u for one reason an one reason only. I got it for $350 dollars per the PNY 30% CompUSA sale. At $350 .....no....that 6800u can't be beat.....at 500-600? Yup.....I have other options through ATI.
This thread is titled .....since you are so damn caught up with your tunnel vision you cant see it...here yuh go....
422 6800gt(bestbuy) or $435 x800xt(gateway)
I stick by my recommendation....get the x800xt. Simple.
burningrave101
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Blackwind said:
Yea show me where that opinion has any falsehood in it other then your own opinion. Those articles say what i'm saying is the truth. You have no feedback to back up anything you've said. Your spewing FUD.
Blackwind said:See...this what you can't seem to get through your thick head burningrave101.
I'm a fanboy.
lol, No i got that through my head from the very start of the thread.
Blackwind said:
Please nothing. If you weren't trying to insinuate that the X800XT PE is a better card then you wouldn't keep on replying in this thread every time i point out the obvious that the 6800u is the better card.
Blackwind said:
Even if you had to pay $499 for a 6800 ultra like most of the rest of the people that have them on HardOCP right now, its still worth it over what you can get an X800XT PE for. Whats the cheapest you can buy an X800XT PE at right now? $435? Or is it even higher then that now? $64 is nothing when your already spending over $400 on a video card.
Just face it. The 6800u is the better card no matter if it costs you more to get it or not. People pay a premium for everything else in their machine to get the best and nothing has changed now.
You can go on and on and on and on and on some more about how you just think i'm an nVidia fanboy but a fanboy is someone that can't back up what their saying and still defends it. And unlike you, i have more then backed up my point of view with links to results.
And if you think the X800XT PE wont get its ass handed to it in the new OpenGL games and in Linux you better keep on dreaming.
burningrave101 said:
The obvious eh? If it were so "obvious" why so many threads asking questions and advise as to which is the better purchase? It's not "obvious" you arrogant tard. That's why you have so many here asking questions ..........I haven't "insintuated" anything. it's a pretty damn CLEAR statement....
422 6800gt(bestbuy) or $435 x800xt(gateway)
I stick by my recommendation....get the x800xt. Simple.
What is it you don't grasp in that statement?
Now does that title state ask or denote......
$280 6800gt(compusa) or $435 x800xt(gateway)
OR
$350 6800u(compusa) or $435 x800xt(gateway)
Nope. Sure doesn't.....but IF it did....I'd recommend going with the gt or ultra while the sale lasts. ( till July the 3rd 30% off all PNY cards at CompUSA.)
trungracingdev
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burningrave101 said:
Okay, I think everyone can agree with me when I say you're an idiot. You are suggesting getting the 6800u even if it costs more. What the hell is wrong with you? You got a money tree somewhere? price matters...
You can go searching the web all you want to get the benchmarks that favors your opinion. I usually stick with the main sites like hardocp, tom's hardware and anandtech. They all say that the results of both cards are very close with the x800 xt pe winning almost every benchmark, especially when it comes to very high resolutions with AA/AF. Even magazines like maximum pc choose the x800 xt pe as the winner BUT you can just ignore the sources that dont agree with your opinion right?
trungracingdev
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agar said:
It took almost 2 years for ps2.0 to be implemented in games, lets see how long it takes before we see games with ps3.0.
splooger said:
You are missing the fact those are non-WHQL approved which means a lot when considering the "real" performance a card can deliver. If you don't remeber what I'm talking about, go look back at the NV3x release and read about what many of those super fast 'leaked' drivers did with performance and image quality. I'm not saying these new drivers are hacked or use game specific optimizations, I'm saying hold off reservations on who is the fastest until we see some approved, certified or shipping drivers with these cards.
burningrave101
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trungracingdev said:
Yea it costs a whole $64 dollars more. Woohoo. And thats if you dont get one for $350 at CompUSA. And how many sites are still offering the X800XT PE for $435?
If you dont want to pay more for the better card then thats your choice. These cards are not equally matched. With the new drivers the 6800u outpaces the X800XT PE in nearly every way until you enable high AA + AF and the 6800u still wins in a large portion of games then as you can see from Anandtech results. Other then AF, what is ATI's strong point? nVidia is better at AA and kicks ass in OpenGL. And i would put just about any nVidia card out there up against the X800XT PE in linux lol. And what kind of new technlogy does the X800 cards support? 3Dc? Something most likely very few if anyone will use. ATI tried to market DXT5 which is nearly the same thing and nobody used it. What has changed since then? The 6800's have Pixel Shader 3.0 and Vertex Shader 3.0 which has already been announced to be used in over a dozen games this year. Doom 3 is OpenGL and has support for nVidia's Ultra Shadow II Technology.
And in case you hadn't already noticed the obvious, all the links i've posted were from reputable sites, Anandtech included.
And all the reviews your talking about are using the old drivers. Point me to a review from a site of your choice using the new 61.34 drivers or higher.
agar said:
You guys are such a bunch of ATI loving nOObs. Do you not realize the 60.72 drivers in those old reviews are not WHQL approved ither? lol
According to you guys we would be better off if we didn't benchmark the cards at all because of the fact nVidia doesn't have any WHQL drivers released yet. They should of never reviewed the cards at all. None of the sites should have any benchmarks between the X800 and 6800. Everything should just come to a halt. All because nVidia's drivers are not WHQL approved yet lol.
There is NOTHING in those reviews using the older 60.72 drivers that makes them more "official" then the 61.34 drivers. The 60.72 drivers were horrible and you guys just want to keep using them because thats the only time the X800XT PE holds its magnificent lead lol.
I'm glad none of you write reviews because you would probably take the heatsink/fan off the 6800's GPU just so you could say the X800XT PE runs cooler lmao.
A bunch of the people over at the nV News forums has been following this thread and you should hear how they are talking about some of you lol. Its quite funny.
Come join the nV News IRC chat if you think you actually know enough about ither one of these cards to defend your opinion. There are more then a few that can put you in your place when it comes to discussing the tech of both of these cards and the inner workings.
Server: FreeNode
Channel: #nvnews
BTW, i still havn't seen any more then a whole lot of fanboy mouth and personal bias opinions about which card is better. When are you guys going to actually come up with some qualified evidence?
/action waits for agar, trungracingdev, and Blackwind to go dig up some more new OLD 60.72 driver reviews lol
agar said:
Agreed. It's funny how burningrave101 seems to claim to "know" so much but yet has completely erased these events from his memory banks.
splooger you aren't missing anything persay ....you're seeing what we all are seeing. The point is that both cards are showing excellent promise. We won't have a "clear" and "obvious" winner or king of the hill until we have stable and finalized drivers to work with. (people like me really don't care) Even once that "crown" is established other important factors will need to be taken into account from the consumer perspective. Price is always a biggie. I like to get as much bang for my buck as possible. When I found out about the PNY 30% at CompUSA I simply couldnt pass that up.....burningrave101 said:
Since you don't know how to read let me spell it out for you...anandtech recommends the x800.
They...like many other sites such as tomshardware and hardocp take more into account then 1-5 fps in a game.burningrave101
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Blackwind said:Agreed. It's funny how burningrave101 seems to claim to "know" so much but yet has completely erased these events from his memory banks.
Yea we should all just not buy a video card or talk about which card is faster or even have any reviews published until there are "official" Microsoft approved drivers available lol.
If none of these drivers are good enough since their not WHQL, how can you dare to say the X800XT PE is better at anything at all, even AF? If these drivers aren't official and we can't go off any of the benchmark results currently then we have no idea how these two cards compare. The NV40 could be slow as a FX 5200 or twice as fast as the X800XT PE lol.
There was an extremely noticeable image quality reduction with the NV30's hacked drivers. There is absolutely NONE with these. And there are more then a handful of 6800u users out there that have been testing an unlimited amount of games over at the nV Forums.
You guys need to find something better then crying about WHQL certification. And you NEED to put up some actual benchmarks in updated reviews if your going to continue to argue with me about this.
If you can't even semi prove what your saying then dont waste everyones time with your fanboy babble.
burningrave101 said:Yea we should all just not buy a video card or talk about which card is faster or even have any reviews published until there are "official" Microsoft approved drivers available lol.
If none of these drivers are good enough since their not WHQL, how can you dare to say the X800XT PE is better at anything at all, even AF? If these drivers aren't official and we can't go off any of the benchmark results currently then we have no idea how these two cards compare. The NV40 could be slow as a FX 5200 or twice as fast as the X800XT PE lol.
There was an extremely noticeable image quality reduction with the NV30's hacked drivers. There is absolutely NONE with these. And there are more then a handful of 6800u users out there that have been testing an unlimited amount of games over at the nV Forums.
You guys need to find something better then crying about WHQL certification. And you NEED to put up some actual benchmarks in updated reviews if your going to continue to argue with me about this.
If you can't even semi prove what your saying then dont waste everyones time with your fanboy babble.
Where do you see mention anything about WHQL? Where have you seen me state we shouldnt review, buy, or talk about these cards?
You're like a 3 legged poodle riding a unicycle around in circles barking nvidia.
Drakensoul
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Burningrave, from a completely objective view of someone who really doesn't give a rats ass one way or another who buys what card or which is better (I likely won't be getting either), you really don't come across well on this thread at all.
You keep trying to generalize everyone who disagrees with you as "ATI fanbois" with statements like "You guys are such a bunch of ATI loving nOObs." Yes, I'm aware that others have done it, too, and they suck just as much donkey ass, but you've been consistent.
That's really mature. Actually, no, it isn't. It's a really poorly-executed attempt to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with you by making them out to be 'lesser class' for their opinions. Almost no one else (notice, almost) has come across (in my opinion) as an "ATI loving nOOb," but I'd have to say you've definitely come across as an "nVidia fanboi." Whether that's good or bad, I don't know, and I don't really care. The point is, no one is going to take you seriously if you're incapable of discussing an issue without it degrading into a sling-fest of comments like the aforementioned.
Seriously, in the end, what does it matter? The cards are usually within +/- 5fps of eachother, big fucking deal. People are going to buy what they want to buy, and you're obviously going to buy Nvidia (even if it costs more, apparently). Congratulations, you win. A+
If people want to spend less money on a card that performs on par with a more expensive card, sacrificing support for features because they don't believe the features will be used en masse anytime soon, good for them. They're weighing their options, and deciding to spend less money on a card they feel will suit their needs. Some people don't care about Doom3, or any of the other announced SM3.0 titles. Some people are smart enough to know that no company is going to alienate ATI owners by making the game play/look remarkably better on an Nvidia card, considering how many people OWN ATI cards, and thus believe that they'll not be sacrificing any important aspects by going with the cheaper card. I would tend to agree.
Lastly, this thread, as has been reiterated I don't know how many times, is asking whether he should buy a 6800GT, or, for roughly the same price, an X800XTPE.
Yes, the X800 costs a bit more, but as you said, price doesn't matter. The X800 is a superior card to the GT, nVidia's mid-line card.
Let's all be nice and get along, KKTHX!
You keep trying to generalize everyone who disagrees with you as "ATI fanbois" with statements like "You guys are such a bunch of ATI loving nOObs." Yes, I'm aware that others have done it, too, and they suck just as much donkey ass, but you've been consistent.
That's really mature. Actually, no, it isn't. It's a really poorly-executed attempt to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with you by making them out to be 'lesser class' for their opinions. Almost no one else (notice, almost) has come across (in my opinion) as an "ATI loving nOOb," but I'd have to say you've definitely come across as an "nVidia fanboi." Whether that's good or bad, I don't know, and I don't really care. The point is, no one is going to take you seriously if you're incapable of discussing an issue without it degrading into a sling-fest of comments like the aforementioned.
Seriously, in the end, what does it matter? The cards are usually within +/- 5fps of eachother, big fucking deal. People are going to buy what they want to buy, and you're obviously going to buy Nvidia (even if it costs more, apparently). Congratulations, you win. A+
If people want to spend less money on a card that performs on par with a more expensive card, sacrificing support for features because they don't believe the features will be used en masse anytime soon, good for them. They're weighing their options, and deciding to spend less money on a card they feel will suit their needs. Some people don't care about Doom3, or any of the other announced SM3.0 titles. Some people are smart enough to know that no company is going to alienate ATI owners by making the game play/look remarkably better on an Nvidia card, considering how many people OWN ATI cards, and thus believe that they'll not be sacrificing any important aspects by going with the cheaper card. I would tend to agree.
Lastly, this thread, as has been reiterated I don't know how many times, is asking whether he should buy a 6800GT, or, for roughly the same price, an X800XTPE.
Yes, the X800 costs a bit more, but as you said, price doesn't matter. The X800 is a superior card to the GT, nVidia's mid-line card.
Let's all be nice and get along, KKTHX!
burningrave101
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Blackwind said:
Blackwind said:
And that was just in your last post. You've been going on about how the 61.34 drivers are not WHQL approved and we shouldn't look at that performance through this whole damn thread. Every time another review stateing more of the obvious your counter is that they are not WHQL approved.
So which is it? Can we compare cards if the drivers are not WHQL approved or do we have to wait till they are before we can say which card is better?
Because according to these reviews using the 61.34 drivers, the 6800u is ahead in the performance factor. The X800XT PE takes its little 1-5 fps leads in certain games at 1600x1200 with high AA + AF enabled, but so does the ultra. And the Ultra will be faster in OpenGL games and the Ultra will be a hell of alot faster in Linux and the Ultra supports the new technology for upcoming games.
If you can buy a 6800 ultra for $500 or less you have no reason to be buying an X800XT PE unless unless you ither A.) Have a SFF case and zero PCI slot room or B.) can't see the obvious advantages of the 6800u and just want to get an X800 because its red.
Everyone is free to pick whichever card they like better. But if your going to start preaching which one is actually better then the other you need to come up with come cold hard facts and not just what you think about it.
Blackwind said:Agreed. It's funny how burningrave101 seems to claim to "know" so much but yet has completely erased these events from his memory banks.
How were you able to order it? I haven't seen anyone that had sucess in pre-ordering one of those. Please share!
burningrave101
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Drakensoul said:Burningrave, from a completely objective view of someone who really doesn't give a rats ass one way or another who buys what card or which is better (I likely won't be getting either), you really don't come across well on this thread at all.
You keep trying to generalize everyone who disagrees with you as "ATI fanbois" with statements like "You guys are such a bunch of ATI loving nOObs." Yes, I'm aware that others have done it, too, and they suck just as much donkey ass, but you've been consistent.
That's really mature. Actually, no, it isn't. It's a really poorly-executed attempt to discredit anyone who doesn't agree with you by making them out to be 'lesser class' for their opinions. Almost no one else (notice, almost) has come across (in my opinion) as an "ATI loving nOOb," but I'd have to say you've definitely come across as an "nVidia fanboi." Whether that's good or bad, I don't know, and I don't really care. The point is, no one is going to take you seriously if you're incapable of discussing an issue without it degrading into a sling-fest of comments like the aforementioned.
Seriously, in the end, what does it matter? The cards are usually within +/- 5fps of eachother, big fucking deal. People are going to buy what they want to buy, and you're obviously going to buy Nvidia (even if it costs more, apparently). Congratulations, you win. A+
If people want to spend less money on a card that performs on par with a more expensive card, sacrificing support for features because they don't believe the features will be used en masse anytime soon, good for them. They're weighing their options, and deciding to spend less money on a card they feel will suit their needs. Some people don't care about Doom3, or any of the other announced SM3.0 titles. Some people are smart enough to know that no company is going to alienate ATI owners by making the game play/look remarkably better on an Nvidia card, considering how many people OWN ATI cards, and thus believe that they'll not be sacrificing any important aspects by going with the cheaper card. I would tend to agree.
Lastly, this thread, as has been reiterated I don't know how many times, is asking whether he should buy a 6800GT, or, for roughly the same price, an X800XTPE.
Yes, the X800 costs a bit more, but as you said, price doesn't matter. The X800 is a superior card to the GT, nVidia's mid-line card.
Let's all be nice and get along, KKTHX!
I have been called an nVidia fanboy and everything else in the world in this thread so dont even try to act like i'm the only one doing it. I have tried to keep this on a more mature level and just discuss the tech of both cards but instead of doing that, everyone else just wants to talk about what they think about me just because they like ATI more.
And since this thread has been posted there have been many other hot deals so the original question no longer implies. CompUSA is offering a PNY 6800u cheaper then the X800XT PE at 30% off if you can get in on it. Its the same way for the PNY 6800GT also.
Your right though, i shouldn't call people a fanboy in this thread, and i will try to act more mature then them and refrain from it. But it is difficult to try and keep a conversation on a halfway mature level when you have a whole bunch of posters jumping in calling you names because they dont agree with what you think, but yet they have zero proof to back up anything they are saying. If they did at least try and back up what they were saying with SOMETHING it wouldn't be so damn irritating.
Blackwind said:
Well since your such a good reader, why dont you show me where in the Anandtech article that they recommend the X800.
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=2091&p=1
And i dont think Tomshardware and HardOCP have released an updated review using the latest drivers now have they. NOPE.
burningrave101
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Blackwind said:
You made mention of the drivers here:
And here:
But you are correct, it has been primarily agar and Dyslexic that have been talking about WHQL and the validity of the 61.34 drivers. But you have also been agreeing with them in nearly everything they have said and what they have been saying is primarily unsupported and completely bias ideas.
So if you dont have a problem with the 61.34 drivers and them not being WHQL certified, then there should be no problem with you looking at the new reviews that use them and seeing how the 6800u is the better performer.
OpenGL alone is a reason to get the 6800 because the 6800 and X800XT PE perform identically in nearly everything else. If you use Linux at all thats another reason to get the 6800. If you run anything at all without AA + AF enabled then the 6800u is usually way out ahead. PS 3.0 and UltraShadow II Technology is just icing on the cake.
And you can get a 6800u cheaper then the X800XT PE now.
There isn't going to be a price factor any more when these cards hit the big sites like Newegg and they all are set at their MSRP. It will all come down to which card is better.
burningrave101
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There is a new review up for grabs on Anandtech.
Title: NV45 Preview: On Package HSI
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2096&p=1
The X800XT and 6800 ultra AGP cards were included in the mix.
Drivers used: Catalyst 4.6 beta
nVidia 61.45
I will compare results now. All results are 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled unless otherwise noted.
EVE: The Second Genesis
6800 ultra wins
F1 Challenge '99-'02
6800 ultra wins
Far Cry
X800XT wins by .4 FPS
Halo
X800XT wins but no AA was used
Homeworld 2
6800 ultra wins
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
6800 ultra wins
Neverwinter Nights: Shadow of the Undrantide
6800 ultra wins
Unreal Tournament 2004
X800XT wins by 3.9 FPS
Warcraft III : The Frozen Throne
6800 ultra wins
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
6800 ultra wins
Title: NV45 Preview: On Package HSI
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2096&p=1
The X800XT and 6800 ultra AGP cards were included in the mix.
Drivers used: Catalyst 4.6 beta
nVidia 61.45
I will compare results now. All results are 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled unless otherwise noted.
EVE: The Second Genesis
6800 ultra wins
F1 Challenge '99-'02
6800 ultra wins
Far Cry
X800XT wins by .4 FPS
Halo
X800XT wins but no AA was used
Homeworld 2
6800 ultra wins
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
6800 ultra wins
Neverwinter Nights: Shadow of the Undrantide
6800 ultra wins
Unreal Tournament 2004
X800XT wins by 3.9 FPS
Warcraft III : The Frozen Throne
6800 ultra wins
Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory
6800 ultra wins
trungracingdev
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burningrave101 said:
Show me where I can get the 6800u cheaper than the x800 xt pe. If you are talking about the CompUSA deal, forget it. Just have a read at that thread real quick. How many people have been able to get that deal?
Now let me show you where I can get the x800 xt pe for 435.
link
I challenge you to show me a link for a 6800u for less than 499 that A REGULAR guy like me can order NOW! It should be easy.
burningrave101 said:
They are not "unspupported and biased" as you have called them. They are directly on the very sites you keep trying to use as "evidence" namely anandtech.
burningrave101 said:
I have never had a problem with reading any of these reviews in fact I read them as soon as I am aware of them being published. Again...1-5 fps does not make it a better performer as you like to claim.....or make for an "obvious" chose.
burningrave101 said:
Learn to drop your general statements and people MIGHT actually take you as creditable. No, OpenGL alone is not a reason to get a 6800. I do not play one OpenGL game. This is your opinion which you are entitled to.....but it doesn't make it fact.
burningrave101 said:
For now. Lets hope it continues. Price wars never hurt consumers.
Lets focus and use your example and last link...the anandtech review.....this is what I see....
EVE: The Second Genesis - I could care less about no aa or no af so I skipped right over it. I don't care about PCI numbers. I have AGP boards so that is my focus. They are nice to see and good information for the future. But presently does me no good.
1600x1200 4xAA/8xAF
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 31.8
ATI Radeon X800 XT 31.6
I see no clear winner here. I see a very close variance. You state the nVidia wins....I beg to differ. I see a tie.
F1 Challenge '99-'02 - Again...I focus on what is important to me and my needs. I skip over no aa af again and look at AGP and at two differant res.
1280x1024 4xAA/8xAF
ATI Radeon X800 XT 59.26
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 59.2
1600x1200 4xAA/8xAF
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 56.5
ATI Radeon X800 XT 46.4
Hmm. Tasty. Good info and it looks like the 6800u does very well at 1600x1200 and I'd say wins this round. I make a note to get additional info on what all is involved in the game, and how it was made, designed and coded so I can apply it the the games I play.
FarCry - Very curious. I have heard alot about this game so I pay close attention and again focus on only AGP with aa and af enabled.
1280x1024 4xAA/8xAF
ATI Radeon X800 XT 75.2
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 70.5
1600x1200 4xAA/8xAF
ATI Radeon X800 XT 54.2
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 53.8
Since I plan on buying this game soon it was important to me to see what they saw....I like what I see and while some may say the ATI "won"..I know my new 6800u will play it well. Unlike you...I won't waste time trying to dimiss ATI advantage...they won.
Halo - skipped just like you....no aa and af.....not interested...I want figures using settings I will use. I'm not paying over 350 for a stinking card to see what my damn futuremark score is.
Homeworld 2 - I pay special attention....love this game.
I skip 1280x960 isnt a setting I'd use....
1600x1200 4xAA/8xAF
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 68.9
ATI Radeon X800 XT 65.2
Yup. Looks like nVidia "won." Again...I'm happy to know that my card will do well. I'd also be happy to recommend an ATI to someone becuase it does well too.
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy - Again go for the good stuff.
1280x1024 4xAA/8xAF
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 86.6
ATI Radeon X800 XT 68.8
If I wanted to be all crazy fanboy I'd say ATI got its ass whooped. Oh yea, I'm not a fanboy.
I was happy to see the 6800 perform so well. 1600x1200 4xAA/8xAF
nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra 73.1
ATI Radeon X800 XT 54.6
Again...looks very good and I like to think I made a good purchase of a 350 dollar 6800u.
.........Are you starting to see what my point is??
Just because you have an opinion about something does not make it irrefutable proof. We each make our own decisions based on the data at hand.
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trungracingdev said:
I know at least a dozen people that went to the CompUSA store today and got a signed raincheck from a manager that says they will get the PNY 6800u for the on sale price as soon as they come back in stock.
Blackwind said:
They may be on the sites that I HAVE directed them to but they are quoting false information from those reviews. Dyslexic said that in the first Anandtech review i posted the X800XT PE was alot better then the 6800u when AA + AF was enabled. Which is not true in that review or any other review using the latest drivers. As you can see in the most recent one i just posted from Aandtech, at 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled, the 6800 ultra won 7 out of the 10 game benchmarks against the X800XT and one of the few games where the X800XT won was in Far Cry where it held an awesome lead of .4 FPS.
And Blackwind, you also said that Anandtech recommends the X800 and nowhere in those two reviews or any other review that uses the newest drivers have they recommended the X800 over the 6800. I would like you to point me to where you got this information.
Blackwind said:
Except thats not what i've been claiming. Thats what others have been claiming about the X800XT. What i've been claiming is that the games where the X800XT PE holds its 1-5 FPS lead or less is hardly worth mentioning. Both cards perform almost exactly the same at 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled. And in the Anandtech reviews the 6800u won in the majority of the games at those settings.
What i've been trying to claim is that now that the 6800u is able to perform just as well as the X800XT PE or better, no matter the resolution or AA + AF, the features of the cards are what you have to look at to see which is truly the better card.
And unless there is some great unknown feature you guys havn't brought up for the X800's besides 3Dc, the 6800u has it outsourced and outmatched in that area with PS 3.0, VS 3.0, and UltraShadow II Technology. And lets not forget the recent release of SLI by nVidia and upcomming PCI-E cards
. But thats a whole nother story in and of itself.The performance difference in normal Direct3D is nearly identical between these two cards so OpenGL is a good reason to say the 6800u is better. I'm sure more then a few peple here on HardOCP will be playing Doom 3 on their new cards, whether its an X800XT or a 6800u. And i'm sure a ton of people here on HardOCP played Call of Duty also. And lets not forget the upcomming Unreal 3 engine. Serious Sam 2 should have OpenGL along with rumors of HL2 incorporating it.
And alot of people are getting into Linux right now and ATI's drivers suck !!!!!!!! in that area lol.
Blackwind said:
Well its fine and dandy for any person on this forum to go out and buy any card in the world they want, ATI or nVidia. I could care less about what you guys buy. But if your going to come into a thread and try to say that one card is better then the other card, you better have some reasoning behind it and links to back up your opinions.
I really havn't even been trying to argue the prices of these cards because for the moment the X800XT PE does have a slight advantage of around $60 as long as Gateway keeps offering them at that price. But personally i wouldn't ever order a damn thing from Gateway. They will screw you any chance they get.
IMO its well worth it to spend an extra $60 to get to order from a more reputable site and also get what is a better card from the way i see it. A $60 price difference isn't much when your already paying well over $400. I just find it hard to believe there are people with the cash to pay $435 but not $499 for what appears to be a better card in almost every way.
Current status at Gateway for the X800XT PE is "OUT OF STOCK: Usually ships in 2 to 4 weeks".
burningrave101 said:
No? Lets see....
.... There is one final dilemma we have on our hands: pricing. From the performance numbers from both this generation and the previous generation, it doesn't seem like prices can stay where they are. As we get a better feel for the coming market with the 12x1 NVIDIA offering, and other midrange and budget offerings from both NVIDIA and ATI, there will be so much overlap in price, performance, and generation without a very large gap in functionality that it might not make sense to spend more money to get something newer. Of course, we will have to wait and see what happens in that area, but depending on what the test results for our 6850 Ultra end up looking like, we may end up recommending that NVIDIA push their prices down slightly (or shift around a few specs) in order to keep the market balanced. With ATI's performance on par in older games and slightly ahead in newer games, the beefy power supply requirement, two slot solution, and sheer heat generated by NV40 may be too much for most people to take the NVIDIA plunge. The bottom line is the consumer here, and its good news all around.
Keep in mind there final dilemma is precluded by other issues they have with nVidia.
burningrave101 said:
Thats exactly what you've been claiming and do so yet again right above and freakin HIGHLIGHTED!! no...the 6800u DIDN'T win in the "majority" of the test.....sheesh.
burningrave101 said:
Again...all opinion. These are features that are nice granted.....but in no way makes the 6800u an undeniable leader in the pack. Let's not forget SLI??
What in God's green earth rotating on its axis does PCI have to do with this thread?? NOTHING!!burningrave101 said:
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMy
61.34 drivers getting pwned by even the X800pro.
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Blackwind said:
That was in the old review. One of the first released. One using old drivers. They did not say anything of the such in the two newest reviews which i have posted.
Blackwind said:
It didn't? Well maybe you can count better so you tell me how many the 6800u won and how many the X800XT won at the 1600x1200 w/ 4x AA + 8x AF enabled in that latest review from Anandtech. Personally i see 7 wins and 3 losses for the 6800u and the losses were all less then 5 FPS and Far Cry was a mere .4 FPS.
You just can't seem to get it through your head what i'm saying here. The performance difference between these two cards is extremely minimal and for the most part the 6800u is in the lead according to these benchmarks. Whats important is what these cards do and do not support and the areas that they lack in. The 6800u is stronger in OpenGL and will murder an ATI card in a Linux setup. And the 6800u supports the new tech that i have mentioned over and over again in this thread. What does the X800XT offer? What does it support? All prices aside, why would i want an X800XT PE over a 6800u? What makes it better? Or for that matter, what makes it even AS GOOD as the 6800u when it doesn't support the tech the 6800u does?
Blackwin said:Again...all opinion. These are features that are nice granted.....but in no way makes the 6800u an undeniable leader in the pack. Let's not forget SLI??
Well what the hell DOES make a card better? lol
The 6800u won 7 out of 10 of those game benches in the latest Anandtech report review at maxed out IQ settings. The 6800u supports PS 3.0 and VS 3.0 and 32-bit floating-point, and Ultra Shadow II Technology. The 6800u is alot stronger in OpenGL. The 6800u uses the X800XT for a hat rack in Linux. What else does it have to do before its the better card? Grow wings and fly around your room with little flashing lights?
Blackwind said:
I'm in the process of evaluating that review right now. And i seriously doubt you can deduct the fact the 61.34 drivers are getting pwned by even a X800Pro from THREE whole game benchmarks lol.
Blackwind said:
Their completely full and running over with BS if they think the X800Pro even compares to the 6800u in performance. Maybe if your sitting there running 800x600 lol.
X800Pro matching or beating the 6800u in performance lmao. Yea their extensive 3 game review goes to prove alot considering its the first review out of about 8 using the new 61.34 drivers that shows that lol.
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splooger said:
The 6800 ultras have been shipping at all different speeds, 400, 425, 435, 450.
burningrave101 said:
Understood. Brent Justice noted in another thread that his reviews use FRAPS instead of time demos to evaluate performance and that time demos (which other sites use) don't take in to account AI that reflects real world gameplay. You had me almost convinced but now I'm starting to worry that the X800XT does perform better in real gameplay even with NVIDIA's latest drivers. I'd like you comment on that. Thanks.
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splooger said:
I'm gathering some information on it now. There are quite a few other people looking into this review also lol. I'm not the only one that thinks it looks like some hardcore BS. Hopefully i can come up with some more answers to your FRAPS vs. Time Demo's question shortly
.I'm going to get in touch with the people i know at Tomshardware and see if i can get them working on an updated review if they aren't already.
burningrave101 said:I'm gathering some information on it now. There are quite a few other people looking into this review also lol. I'm not the only one that thinks it looks like some hardcore BS. Hopefully i can come up with some more answers to your FRAPS vs. Time Demo's question shortly
I'm going to get in touch with the people i know at Tomshardware and see if i can get them working on an updated review if they aren't already.
Do the people you know at Tom's share the same view you do about Nvidia...I mean the 6800? Somehow I wouldn't be to surprised.
I'm sorry grave, that was to easy. Anyways, does TH use FRAPS with their reviews? I haven't seen anyone doing that other than [H] and I am getting the feeling that more might switch once this gets worked out. At least from the past when standard timedemos were used some companies were given the urge to tune their drivers for a specific game so that performance was a little better than it was in normal gameplay. Now we have all of these custom demos and who knows how that prevents such 'optimizations'.
Well burningrave101 what are you going to say now that HardOCP has a new review with new drivers showing the 6800ultra losing big to the X800 XT?
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMy
http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjMy
Dyslexic said:
Well, I don't know what he'll say but speaking for myself I'm fucking pissed at this new development. I was going to buy a new computer from Monarch in the next few days because they have a BFG 6800u in stock and I wasn't going to wait for the X800 XT. Now I'll probably have to wait for the fucking X800 XT for God knows how long because it's the better card
Motherfucking paper launching ATI bastards I hate you