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creedAMD said:FUD, prove that it will look better than the x800. What are you basing this on?
tranCendenZ said:Not FUD, truth. Can read more about it here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?threadid=91628&perpage=10&pagenumber=16
I could easily find more links though about the higher quality of FP blending with HDR versus HDR without fp blending.
creedAMD said:The proof is in the pudding, I don't forsee nvidia doing anything "higher quality" without tanking in performance, until they can get far cry to run without using FP16. You are marketing for games in the future when nvidia is struggling with performance/quality of games in the present. Take it one step at a time. High hopes is one thing, but spreading it around like its a fact is another.
tranCendenZ said:One thing you must realize creed is that I don't post something unless I can back it up
Ver said:No. No digital camera for me
However, I thought that might be a problem so i unplugged everything and move wires/cables around best I could. That tornado in my box is at the front of the case blowing air directly onto the 6800U. I might try reversing this later.
creedAMD said:ouch, host is a little slow.
But the x800 series should make it look the same way, correct? I thought this has been beaten to death.
tranCendenZ said:No, at least with not with the lighting patch (1.3) - the x800 will likely look similar to the 6800 in the SM3.0 patch (1.2), but should look worse in the HDR patch (1.3), assuming the dev posting those screens was informed correctly. Those shots according to the poster were taken with true HDR featuring FP blending. The x800 does not support this, only a lower quality workaround. The x800's implementation will be lower quality, and might be lower performance too for the 1.3 patch (assuming the poster was informed correctly about the nature of the HDR in the patch he was using - I'd assume so though since he seemed very knowledgable, probably a dev who is a friend of one of the Far Cry devs).
creedAMD said:Do you have a screenshot of the x800 doing it? Something to compare by?
SnakEyez187 said:Why don't you post other information from the thread discounting the false PR statements this guy is spreading?
tranCendenZ said:Because they aren't false, and the people "discounting" him were proved wrong in that thread. Here is another source detailing the importance of the 6800's FP blending (which the X800 does not support) in true HDR:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1567089,00.asp
"The FP32 texture unit found in each pixel shader pipeline also tends to filtering chores, doing bilinear, trilinear, and up to 128-tap anisotropic filtering. However, these texturing units can also perform filtering on FP16 color values, such as those used in ILM's OpenEXR format. This preserves pixel color precision by not "dumbing down" the pixel color value to a fixed point 32-bit value, where filtering operations could introduce rounding errors. These errors can show up as banding or blotching in the image, particularly in areas with higher than normal dynamic range. It also means that an FP16 color value can be written into the frame buffer, and then be read back into the GPU without any loss of precision.
The top image uses a standard sRGB data representation to store texture data. Note the substantial loss of information in the left (darker) window. On the right, the overly bright light creates banding and saturation in the lit floor and ceiling area. The bottom image uses OpenEXR data. You can see more of the terrain and cloud detail in the left window, and the floor and ceiling texture detail is more apparent.
OpenEXR is a data format developed by Industrial Light and Magic, and uses 16-bit floating point precision for graphics data. OpenEXR is often used to light high dynamic range images. By having many more possible color values, 3D renderers can express much greater contrast ratios between the brightest values and the darkest values. This allows for better ramping toward the brightest values (as illustrated above), and better detail in dark areas, where surface detail can be better preserved.
Previous GPUs didn't have the ability to write FP color values out to the frame buffer, but instead could only write those values to temporary registers inside the GPU when additional processing still needed to be done. Floating-point values are key to being able to deliver convincing high dynamic range (HDR) lighting such as overly bright light blooms, and glare from sunlight."
creedAMD said:Man, please stop, you are a PR machine. Please open your eyes and wait to see facts before you jump off the deep end. The 6800u currently has horrible quality issues in FarCry and has since launch. Let them get those fixed first before believing that they are going to fix them, keep performance, then give better image quality than the x800pro and beat them in speed.
It is possible, but just give it some time. I just hate seeing people's hope crushed from hype.
tranCendenZ said:I think the screenshots above speak volumes about where FarCry is headed for the 6800 series
tranCendenZ said:I think the screenshots above speak volumes about where FarCry is headed for the 6800 series
tranCendenZ said:I think the screenshots above speak volumes about where FarCry is headed for the 6800 series
merlin704 said:Funny since HDR has been available since the release of the 9700 Pro.
creedAMD said:Tranz don't tell you that, you are only going to get one side of the story from him everytime. Either he really hates Ati for some reason, has stock in Nvidia, works for nvidia, or just likes to troll people who have made big purchases. I'm thinking a little of all of the choices. I just like to think of him as the nvidia undercover PR guy.
merlin704 said:Funny since HDR has been available since the release of the 9700 Pro.
Arioch said:Does anyone actually research Far Cry information or do they just post screenshots they saw somewhere?
tranCendenZ said:As I stated a few posts ago, the 1.2 (SM3.0) patch will likely look similar on the 6800 and x800 series, since it is not using true displacement mapping but rather offset mapping (or virtual displacement mapping). OTOH, the HDR being used in the 1.3 patch looks to take advantage of the 6800's FP blending, which should yield a higher quality result with higher precision and better lighting range than the X800 because the X800 does not support FP blending for hdr like the 6800. This isn't to say that the X800 won't have HDR, but if this is the case it won't look as good.
Note that FP blending for hdr (along with SM3.0) will most definitely be added to R500, as it is a necessary step for "true" HDR.
Arioch said:Well Crytek has delayed the 1.2 patch indefinitely now. It's anyone's guess if and when any of this will appear. It would not surprise me to see the virtual displacment mapping not make it in the next patch at all.
tranCendenZ said:The numerous links I posted detail the quality improvements that can be offered by Nvidia's new implementation versus the older implementation that the 9700pro/x800pro use.
creedAMD said:I thought the patch would have been out a week after E3, they were parading everywhere about how easy it was to implement SM3.0 into Farcry, yet we are still without it months later. I guess we'll know the reason for the early hype soon enough.
Arioch said:Some people think maybe the 6800 does not have enough power to push PS3.0 features effectively.
Well the whole SM3.0 in Far Cry has many people believing the effects shown in the screenshots everyone is alluding to is 6800 exclusive. I still remember the launch pictures that show supposed PS2.0 vs. PS3.0 shots that were incorrect as the screen shots were in fact PS2.0 and PS1.1 effects.
Arioch said:Some people think maybe the 6800 does not have enough power to push PS3.0 features effectively.
Well the whole SM3.0 in Far Cry has many people believing the effects shown in the screenshots everyone is alluding to is 6800 exclusive. I still remember the launch pictures that show supposed PS2.0 vs. PS3.0 shots that were incorrect as the screen shots were in fact PS2.0 and PS1.1 effects.
Funny how the ONLY person posting links to backup the stuff they say is tranCendenZ. Then there's creed just screaming how it doesn't matter since the R500 will be out by the time it is really needed. Somehow I don't think he was arguing that NVIDIA would have a card that can handle PS2.0 fine when it is really needed a year ago.creedAMD said:Tranz don't tell you that, you are only going to get one side of the story from him everytime. Either he really hates Ati for some reason, has stock in Nvidia, works for nvidia, or just likes to troll people who have made big purchases. I'm thinking a little of all of the choices. I just like to think of him as the nvidia undercover PR guy.
obs said:Funny how the ONLY person posting links to backup the stuff they say is tranCendenZ.
obs said:Funny how the ONLY person posting links to backup the stuff they say is tranCendenZ. Then there's creed just screaming how it doesn't matter since the R500 will be out by the time it is really needed. Somehow I don't think he was arguing that NVIDIA would have a card that can handle PS2.0 fine when it is really needed a year ago.
obs said:Then there's creed just screaming how it doesn't matter since the R500 will be out by the time it is really needed. Somehow I don't think he was arguing that NVIDIA would have a card that can handle PS2.0 fine when it is really needed a year ago.
tranCendenZ said:Heh, that is a funny analogy.
creedAMD said:You have to laugh at him sometimes. He takes this stuff too serious.
tranCendenZ said:As I stated in another thread, there is no need to be condescending.
obs said:Yea, me saying that the 5950 and PS2.0 and the X800 and PS3.0 being in similar situations is being way too serious and just cluttering [H] up with shit. Oh, and being a groupie too. Any other personal comments you want to make or are you going to actually argue my post?