AznAnarchy99
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yup, even though i like ATi and all (i didnt buy this 7800), i gota agree with kyle and what he said.
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kyle pwns ati hah nice job
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Although I haven't owned an ATI card for about 7 years now, I hope they don't start making bad decisions and go under.
Without ATI, there is no competion. No competition means higher prices and less innovation for you and me.
Hopefully they can get their act together and come out with the R520 before it's too late.
Without ATI, there is no competion. No competition means higher prices and less innovation for you and me.
Hopefully they can get their act together and come out with the R520 before it's too late.
5150Joker
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Wow we sure do have a lot of PhD financial analysts on the forums tonight!
It's really sad to see a company struggling to get a grip on its aggressive timetable/production woes/PR bunnies...then again so was nVidia 3 years back. 
Sometimes these things have to happen for a company and its board of directors to get their shock-and-awe...hopefully it will turn out to be the best thing for them so they can restructure and come back with a bang (hell, look at with it did for nVidia)...
Sometimes these things have to happen for a company and its board of directors to get their shock-and-awe...hopefully it will turn out to be the best thing for them so they can restructure and come back with a bang (hell, look at with it did for nVidia)... I think most are frustrated by the ATI stream of paper launches.
A person who saw Crossfire paper launched in May has been waiting a lot of months for it.
The problem with this is that these are high end customers who wanted a high end solution from their chosen manufacturer, and there has not been one available from ATI since last November when 6800 GT SLI and 6800 U SLI made all their "high end solutions" obsolete.
The problem is compounded by the release and success of the 7800 cards, these poor guys have just had to watch and grind their teeth while nVidia customers cranked up the res and AA/AF with much higher minimum fps.
Remember, the people who would have bought this had a LOT of money to spend and have been waiting since last November if they started waiting with SLI, or last May when ATI originally paper launched. (it's on their website)
To paper launch AGAIN is like spitting in the face of these people, why don't the ATI execs just borrow their wives while they're at it? It's getting pretty degrading.
A person who saw Crossfire paper launched in May has been waiting a lot of months for it.
The problem with this is that these are high end customers who wanted a high end solution from their chosen manufacturer, and there has not been one available from ATI since last November when 6800 GT SLI and 6800 U SLI made all their "high end solutions" obsolete.
The problem is compounded by the release and success of the 7800 cards, these poor guys have just had to watch and grind their teeth while nVidia customers cranked up the res and AA/AF with much higher minimum fps.
Remember, the people who would have bought this had a LOT of money to spend and have been waiting since last November if they started waiting with SLI, or last May when ATI originally paper launched. (it's on their website)
To paper launch AGAIN is like spitting in the face of these people, why don't the ATI execs just borrow their wives while they're at it? It's getting pretty degrading.
S
SpeedRunner
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I think Kyle told it like it is... ATI has been slapping enthusiasts in the face these past few months. We don't deserve it.
5150Joker said:
Are you people all on drugs?
Some people here talk as if ATI were mere months away from going out of business.
I just read their 3rd quarter financial report, and guess what, they aren't going anywhere.
Despite profits being down, they are still showing a net $120M profit for the year to date. Furthermore they have enough cash in the bank to operate for almost a year with no revenue from their PC division. Financially they are quite healthy.
While bone-headed management moves don't help their reputation in the enthusiast market, they aren't going bankrupt any time soon.
Top-end graphics cards are not where the money is in the graphics world. ATI got it's start in the OEM market and that is where they continue to make the majority of their profits.
While the debate between paper and hard launches might flare up here in cyberspace, the impact it has on the overall financial health of the company is minimal, at best.
The difference between ATI now and 3DFX in years past is that 3DFX was a company that supplied high end graphics products to the enthusiast market. Period. When that market fell out from under them, they ceased to be. ATI could pull out of the high end market and remain in business for a very long time even without the revenues from products such as Crossfire or the R520. Look at Matrox, they continue to exist even though I can't think of 5 people I know personally that have a Matrox board in their system right now.
The clusterfuck that is the R520/Crossfire launch is a setback surely, but it by no means is the death knell of a graphics company.
*disclaimer* I posted the preceding in another thread tonight and it fell on deaf ears. While I don't have a PhD in finance, I actually read the quarterly and I am not a total retard.
Yep, true dat. Even IF, and that is a big if, they close down their PC division (which isn't gonna happen anytime soon - trust me), they still have a lot of marketshare with their other products, mainly in the CE business. So these rumours about ATI going bankrupt (the same was said 3 years back about nVidia) don't hold water, at least not yet.canis said:
Edit: "clusterfuck", ROFL!
5150Joker
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canis said:
Ok so why did you quote me? That was the point of my post - ATi isn't going anywhere.
If we get a review of the X1kXT in a few days...well, that would be kinda bad considering these comments (unless they're in stock at the egg).
If we get a review of the X1kXT in crossfire in a few days...well....I'll be
Bad thing about taking a stand on an issue is that people expect you to demonstrate your conviction with action, even when it is painful/difficult to do so.
Note to potential flamers: I'm not an Nvidia f@nboi- I openly admit to being a hardware whore. I'll take whoever's got the best price/performance right now, thanks.
Respectfully submitted,
Yevaud
If we get a review of the X1kXT in crossfire in a few days...well....I'll be
Bad thing about taking a stand on an issue is that people expect you to demonstrate your conviction with action, even when it is painful/difficult to do so.
Note to potential flamers: I'm not an Nvidia f@nboi- I openly admit to being a hardware whore. I'll take whoever's got the best price/performance right now, thanks.
Respectfully submitted,
Yevaud
5150Joker
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Unoid said:
Conservatives need to get an education in proper grammar.
Replicant1911 said:
Caring about the color of PCB is the same thing as a girl buying an iMac on the basis of it being "cute."
Make jokes, I've seen people buy computers based on them being "cute." Seriously, buying a component based on it's color is rediculous. There are Red PCB'd Geforce cards. There are, blue, green black and there was even a link on a site to a yellow Geforce 6800Ultra. Don't have damn clue who made it though.
The point is, the color of the part makes no difference. If it is simply the highest performing solution on the market, and it can be had for less money, there can be no logical argument against it, vs. the competitions cards.
This certainly has to be a tough business, and a little ranting every now and again isn't necessarily shocking or unacceptable. What makes Kyle so invaluable to the entire PC hardware community is that he is one of the few who won't hesitate to speak out when companies attempt to box him into corners.
As it is, I think, ATi simply isn't playing things by the book any more, and that's a real downer when it comes to enthusiasts like us. Healthy competition from GPU manufacturers is now vital for PC gaming as well as for consumers, and it's extremely problematic when product lines from competing manufacturers are so mismatched. The "If NVIDIA does it, we can do it too!" bit is right on. It's so satisfying to hear someone actually say it.
Oh, and does anyone really feel like being called a Canuck is offensive?
As it is, I think, ATi simply isn't playing things by the book any more, and that's a real downer when it comes to enthusiasts like us. Healthy competition from GPU manufacturers is now vital for PC gaming as well as for consumers, and it's extremely problematic when product lines from competing manufacturers are so mismatched. The "If NVIDIA does it, we can do it too!" bit is right on. It's so satisfying to hear someone actually say it.
Oh, and does anyone really feel like being called a Canuck is offensive?
Steel Chicken
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phide said:
Being called a Canuck is not offensive, but thats NOT what he said...is it?
HiNerdsIcomeInPeace
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J-Mag said:
A risk? A risk is storming a machine gun nest knowing you might not live or doing a whore without a condom. Posting how you feel about a "video card company" isn't really a risk (no offense).
I think it's crazy that usually someone posting a negative comment about ATI would get churned and burned... But now "someone who leads the flock" posts a negative comment about ATI (BTW: ATI pisses me off too), and everyone jumps on board...
BAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAA
Inglix_the_Mad
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Well I wouldn't put it as Kyle pwning ATI. What Kyle was saying is that he really does believe ATI is hurting themselve and the fanbase that supports them. He said nVidia raised the product bar here, and ATI had better as well. Finally, and really the first thing he said, don't ever lie to the reviewers again.
Most of the reputable review sites have started posting things now digging into ATI because they feel, at least, that they were misled by ATI's marketing people on availability. They feel that their reputations, their capital in the ever-changing web, was damaged by repeating something that wasn't true.
ATI really screwed up this round, now when they catch up again is another story.
Most of the reputable review sites have started posting things now digging into ATI because they feel, at least, that they were misled by ATI's marketing people on availability. They feel that their reputations, their capital in the ever-changing web, was damaged by repeating something that wasn't true.
ATI really screwed up this round, now when they catch up again is another story.
Erasmus354
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Sir-Fragalot said:
You have to admit though that if you could get that White PCB motherboard (or any motherboard with a white PCB) paired with a video card on a white pcb, and a sound card on white pcb that it would look pretty damned sweet.
Chris_B
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Ati's paper launches are geting old and tedious, the r520 is like 3 months or so late, crossfire is around twice that duration. I don't see what the big problem is in even getting crossfire cards out to be sold, at least for the x850xt cards at least, the r480 was meant to solve the yield problems of the r420 was it not?
This paper launching bullshit has to stop, either release on schedule or shut the fuck up about release dates untill you have a good quantity of cards to distribute and are getting good yields of the chips.
Im not really a fan of either company, i have an x800xt pe in my main system and a 6800gt in my shuttle, they both perform well. Just seems stupid to me that it seems that for the x1800xt we're gonna have another fucking scavanger hunt with stores getting in maybe 5-10 of them at any time and then bumping the price as high as they like.
I'll say it again:
This paper launching bullshit has to stop, either release on schedule or shut the fuck up about release dates untill you have a good quantity of cards to distribute and are getting good yields of the chips.
This paper launching bullshit has to stop, either release on schedule or shut the fuck up about release dates untill you have a good quantity of cards to distribute and are getting good yields of the chips.
Im not really a fan of either company, i have an x800xt pe in my main system and a 6800gt in my shuttle, they both perform well. Just seems stupid to me that it seems that for the x1800xt we're gonna have another fucking scavanger hunt with stores getting in maybe 5-10 of them at any time and then bumping the price as high as they like.
I'll say it again:
This paper launching bullshit has to stop, either release on schedule or shut the fuck up about release dates untill you have a good quantity of cards to distribute and are getting good yields of the chips.
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[RIP]Zeus
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Chris_B said:
I will quote this as it may need to be repeated for ati.
They seem to not listen to well.
TheRapture
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Chris_B said:
OWNED
soulsaver_8229
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ummmmmmmmm.............ok?Replicant1911 said:
because i cant stand 1980;s snot green pcb........if i wanted green pcb id blow my nose in it before the product is made, thanks....
soulsaver
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soulsaver_8229 said:
You bleeding outa your nose?
Mine's blue and it's viewing this forum
Well put Kyle, I think someone needed to say it.
I think you should change the title of the Crossfire review to "Crossfire Preview". Because you really can't "review" a product that cannot be purchased right?
I think you should get tough with ATi and refuse to review anything they haven't launched yet and can be purchased readily (though I think you covered that point already). Losing the reviewage of Hardocp.com would be a pretty big blow if you ask me. Might encourage ATi to get their act together.
I think you should change the title of the Crossfire review to "Crossfire Preview". Because you really can't "review" a product that cannot be purchased right?
I think you should get tough with ATi and refuse to review anything they haven't launched yet and can be purchased readily (though I think you covered that point already). Losing the reviewage of Hardocp.com would be a pretty big blow if you ask me. Might encourage ATi to get their act together.
soulsaver_8229
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so what your saying is im not entitled to my own opinion?Sir-Fragalot said:
use all the green pcb youd like i could care less.............i want my computer to actualy match if i can, speicaly with my open window.........
im sorry you feel the need to bash my opinion.........oddly enough you picked the easiest thing to bash
gg!soulsaver
soulsaver_8229
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i ment for green pcb, mines red atm[RIP]Zeus said:You bleeding outa your nose?
Mine's blue and it's viewing this forum
i traded my black sapphire for a g5 lazer mousewuwu ah well........im going with sapphire again, i perfer black and it will look secshee with my dfi board with my soundblaster black pcb, in my black case powder coated black with black dvd drives
black black black, black is the new black!!!!!!!
soulsaver
ThreeDee
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..its because they stepped into the console arena ..when nVidia initially did with XBox ..look what happend to them ..now nVidia has recovered and ATi is in the boat they were in not to long ago.
ATi will recover and get back on track before too long ...I hope ...
ATi will recover and get back on track before too long ...I hope ...
ATI is done with the xbox, they are not making the chips.ThreeDee said:..its because they stepped into the console arena ..when nVidia initially did with XBox ..look what happend to them ..now nVidia has recovered and ATi is in the boat they were in not to long ago.
ATi will recover and get back on track before too long ...I hope ...
So, if company A made a videocard for $500 that was black, and company N made a card twice as powerfull for only $250 but green, you wouldn't buy the videocard from company N?
And if you ask why I am bashing your personaly preference, well, I would also bash the personal pereference of anyone who decides that it is fun to commit suicide, because it is RETARDED.
soulsaver_8229
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that brings up another point.........did kyle say he wouldnt review a product if it wasnt out on the market for consumers?Yiffy said:
crap cant find his quote
ah well
ThreeDee
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I've heard mention of that a few different times from either Kyle or Brent ..I too as well also dont have any linkage on hand to "prove"soulsaver_8229 said:that brings up another point.........did kyle say he wouldnt review a product if it wasnt out on the market for consumers?
crap cant find his quote
soulsaver_8229
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your name calling my opinion!!! i need an adult!Enrickey said:
no serriously tho
umm no i wouldnt, cause im not that silly to spend so much on a video card in the first place
im spending 200 bucks on my new one, and keeping it for the next 2 years, and the fact is your question holds no weight because its far from the way video cards are........
you didnt pick your CM stacker because it has great preformence, you picked it cause its a big case that will hold your junk and keep it cool............i, look for preformence and looks
hence why i got my ballistix tracers.........but, i didnt pay near what i thought i would retail, so i figured why not.........
i want things to preform and look good, wth you think rims and body kits, suspension kits sell?
its making your ride mo fly~ and making it look good while your at it
i feel the same way.......pcb green is ugly........and i wont use anything like it.......nuff said, its my opinion, why does it bother you so much?
soulsaver
soulsaver_8229
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IIRC.......someone asked why they didnt use the beta nvida drivers when testing the 7800's vs crossfire.......cant find it but he said something along the lines of.........id never test anything you guys cant get yourself off the shelf or somthing.......and somthing like, thats what seprates us from other reviewing sites....../shrug/ThreeDee said:
soulsaver
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