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Showdown: BenQ FP241WZ vs. Dell 2407-A04
- Thread starter Jim Robbins
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Jim Robbins
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Well, everyone is entitled to their opinions... I really hated the touch buttons, I could never get them to work well. I guess my fingers aren't hot enough or something. Also, it had this strange sparkle to it, like it was glossy, but not really. It's hard to describe. The unit I got was always blurry, no matter what I plugged into it. The color was pretty bad, too... If I turned down the brightness to make it work well in my dark room, all the detail in the images disappeared. Anyway, I hated it. If you love yours, great! Maybe the one I got was defective or something... I don't know, but I know it wasn't worth the money for me.
Jim Robbins
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I'd say it comes pretty close. The black shades on the Dell aren't as good as the CRT, of course. But, just going back and forth between the picture I mentioned earlier in the thread, I'd say I prefer the Dell. I think the widescreen really puts it over the top. If it were just a 20" lcd monitor, I'd stay with the Mits. But, having all that extra space is the best part. Of course, you can't scan at native resolution from 640x480 to up to 2048x1536 on the Dell, but you can't have everything in one unit I guess.
So, for me, it would be worth it to go to the Dell. Had I just gotten the Dell by itself, I would have kept it to replace the CRT. Later!
I've own both and I don't think so. Dells image quality is much better. As for the 360, it looks like crap on both. Even though A03(and preveous) suffers from a 1:1 issue, I always had issues with the gateway and tearing when switching through the options. So it's scaling options wasn't without problems.
Meatwad650
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I was bummed to see 1080p not working with component on the Dell...was this ever supposed to work? Has Dell ever said anything about it?
Sinister Crayon
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Dell has a very crappy scaler which probably won't be fixed until the next model refresh. It won't take 1080i over DVI and won't take 1080p over component, if you want these features, send the Dell back for the Benq FP241wz like I finally caved in and did. The Benq may not have the looks, but according to everyone I've heard from that's tried both, its the better of the two for only a 70 bucks more. I'll let you know once buy.com gets them back in stock and ships my order.
I wish it was only $70 more here! Dell = £475 BenQ = £600 (WZ = £700). I am having a really hard time justifying the extra cost.
Mike
germanjulian
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extra cost... mhh
I dont know how it is in the UK but in germany the RMA service with a swap out justified the cost. same thing happened with my Iiyama monitor. good customer service also with both companies
(I had a W and wanted 1:1 fix they replaced it with a january 07 WZ model)
you get what you pay for! same with a PSU.
I dont know how it is in the UK but in germany the RMA service with a swap out justified the cost. same thing happened with my Iiyama monitor. good customer service also with both companies
(I had a W and wanted 1:1 fix they replaced it with a january 07 WZ model)
you get what you pay for! same with a PSU.
Jim Robbins
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I think you'll like the Dell just fine if you aren't using the extra connectors. I only slightly prefer the BenQ for regular PC use. It was $100 less for the Dell for me. That's a big difference if you aren't going to use the extra connections. Later.
Jim Robbins
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Jim,I have a request
Can you take a few shots of the 2 screens side by side ?
I hooked both the Dell and the BenQ up to my pc last night. It was crazy having two 1920x1200 displays side by side. I didn't take any pics, however. I only have a Radeon X850XT PE AGP video card. It has 1 DVI port and 1 VGA port. I wasn't getting even colors across the two, and I think it's because of not using the same kind of port. I thought I might be able to hook both up to VGA with an adapter on my DVI port, but that didn't seem like a fair comparison, either. 99.9% of the people buying one of these monitors will not be using VGA to hook them up.
However, because I couldn't tweak the colors the same, it sure makes me want to buy one of those Spyder2 software/hardware systems. Only the cheap version doesn't let you do dual monitor profiles or RGB calibration from the monitor. It basically only makes a monitor color profile. And I want to be able to replicate the settings to other inputs so all my video games look good too. Too bad I don't have an extra $200 for the Pro version. That lets you do multi monitor and RGB Pre-cal, etc. *sigh* Oh well...
Meatwad650
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Oh man....I wish you hadn't pointed me at buy.com...I thought it was like a $900 monitor....well, I'm going to have to think about it. Thanks to Costco I have plenty of time to consider what to do.
In the review it said that 1:1 left stuff on the sides....but shouldn't it do that? 1080p is 1900x1080, not 1920, right?
Sinister Crayon
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Oh man....I wish you hadn't pointed me at buy.com...I thought it was like a $900 monitor....well, I'm going to have to think about it. Thanks to Costco I have plenty of time to consider what to do.
In the review it said that 1:1 left stuff on the sides....but shouldn't it do that? 1080p is 1900x1080, not 1920, right?
Hehe, the Dell looked great on my desktop, but it just lacked the features and performance of the BenQ. I was really torn up about sending the Dell back, but the BenQ will be worth it. The 1:1 mode leaves stuff on the sides depending on the input, but if you use aspect on those inputs where 1:1 does not work, it gives you a 1:1 picture.
1080p is 1920 though.Meatwad650
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The 1:1 mode leaves stuff on the sides depending on the input, but if you use aspect on those inputs where 1:1 does not work, it gives you a 1:1 picture.
Maybe I'll wait until they fix it, then. I can afford to wait quite a while for them to make 1:1 work properly. If you have to use "aspect" then it's stretching probably...
Sinister Crayon
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A bunch of the guys said they measured it and it seems about right. (one used a circle and checked the horizontal diameter against the vertical and they were the same. Another calculated how much space should be on top and how much on bottom and then measured and came up with a length that matched his calculations. So I highly doubt it is stretching. It might be worth it to wait, but it works fine now, just under aspect setting instead of 1:1.
Meatwad650
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If someone could test it with a test signal to see if it's been manipulated then that would be cool. I'm just a bit skeptical when someone says "1:1 isn't 1:1, but aspect is.." That is unless Costco starts selling this monitor so I can get it there too.
Vengance_01
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I really like this monitor. Its down to this BenQ and the new LG which uses the screen as the older W model. We see, but the LG is quite a bit cheaper and no shipping. Also if I get a bad unit, 20 mins back to best buy and I am good. Although the features on the BenQ are in fact intreging. I really want to see this new tech to reduce ghosting. I also like the plain look of the BenQ.
Jim Robbins
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I didn't realize that LG was coming out with a 24" monitor. But here is the link:
http://us.lge.com/products/model/detail/computer products_lcd monitors_wide screen_L246WP.jhtml
I work at Best Buy part time, so I'll keep my eye open for it. I know they don't have them yet. My normal job is staring at a computer for 8 hours a day doing programming. *sigh* If the LG really will be cheaper, it would be nice to try one of those, too. *grin*
Hi Jim
I received my Dell 2407, Rev04 yesterday and tested it with my XBox360 with VGA on 1080p and do not notice any ghosting, tearing or loss of detail in FEAR, FIFA07 and NFS. I have also posted a couple of shots on the monitor and so far, 360 looks pretty good to a point where I've paired it up to my Dell on a permanent basis. The only calibration I did was to decrease the sharpness to 30 like someone reported here on HF, other than that, everythings at factory settings.
Also played some 1080p WMV videos and they looked pretty good too...this is my first 24" LCD so I dont have any comparison but for my needs (PC+360), the 2407 meets and exceeds my expectations. Also zero dead pixels and very minimal banding
Frag
I received my Dell 2407, Rev04 yesterday and tested it with my XBox360 with VGA on 1080p and do not notice any ghosting, tearing or loss of detail in FEAR, FIFA07 and NFS. I have also posted a couple of shots on the monitor and so far, 360 looks pretty good to a point where I've paired it up to my Dell on a permanent basis. The only calibration I did was to decrease the sharpness to 30 like someone reported here on HF, other than that, everythings at factory settings.
Also played some 1080p WMV videos and they looked pretty good too...this is my first 24" LCD so I dont have any comparison but for my needs (PC+360), the 2407 meets and exceeds my expectations. Also zero dead pixels and very minimal banding
Frag
There have been a couple of threads on this -- apparently the monitor is already starting to show up at some Best Buys and other retail stores. There are some initial impressions here and here. This is the one I'm really interested in right now -- like Vengance_01, I'm hesitant to have to deal with the hassle or ordering online and praying I get a good unit. I'm also not very impressed with BenQ's customer service, which makes me question just how much piece of mind the 3 year warranty on the BenQ actually gives.
Vengance_01
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Yup Thats my thoughts. Also the LG uses the same panel in the as the BenQ. I am gonna take a trip up to my local BB just to see if they have it. Still waiting for the 12% off to come out. I can really get a good deal if this comes.
Jim Robbins
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Btw, that %12 off Reward Zone coupon usually doesn't include monitors. I have seen it specify monitors only a couple of times. Sorry, I just don't want you to get your hopes up too much. I have personally been denied use of one of those coupons for a monitor in the past, before I worked at Best Buy.
Does it seem odd that the new LG only has an HDMI and VGA? No DVI... And the specs say it has a component video out. That must be in the wrong section. It has to be an input. Well, I hope my Best Buy gets one soon. I am anxious to see it myself. Later...
Vengance_01
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I just looked at one, and I can say now its tops on my list. But the 1:1 issues is really worrying me. I think I might call LG today and see if I can get some more info.
Jim Robbins
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Ok, I did it... I bought the LG L246WP just now. I'll try to add it to the Showdown tonight. Fortunately for me, it doesn't have as many inputs, so I won't have to run as many tests. *grin*
Yeah, I am an idiot, I know... But now I have three 24" monitors. And I am still alive! My wife even knows what I have done!
Well, I better get to work, I want to try and get this third part of the review hammered out tonight.
Later.
Yeah, I am an idiot, I know... But now I have three 24" monitors. And I am still alive! My wife even knows what I have done!
Well, I better get to work, I want to try and get this third part of the review hammered out tonight.
Later.
Manny Calavera
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Hi,
I should have been more clear,I want to see the two side by side,they do not have to be turned on and running,just a well lit pic or two,is all. tia
Where can we get a wife like yours...treat her special if shes letting you do this!
Vengance_01
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Dude stay up tonight and get things done! If you give a positive outlook for it, I am jumping on the LG tomorrow before school
Mainly as long as its good as computer monitor and can display the 360 fairly well in 720P and stretching it a bit, I don't mind.Jim Robbins
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Dude stay up tonight and get things done! If you give a positive outlook for it, I am jumping on the LG tomorrow before school
Ok, I stayed up too late... It's after 2:30 am. I have to work in the morning...
Here is the link to the showdown again:
http://www.bexox.com/showdown.htm
It works decent at 720p on the 360, but no 1080p is available -- neither Component Video nor VGA work right on the ultimate resolution. Sorry... *sigh*
Thanks for that, I was about to *kill* you seen as I just bought the Dell! But from your review the LG can't do aspect scaling and 1:1 mapping (does it even work with the PC HDMI?) and that to me would be a deal breaker.
Mike
It can do them, it's just inconsistent as to when the options are present -- when using HDMI in "PC Mode" or VGA inputs, your only options are "full" (stretches to fill the whole screen), or "1:1" (centered at original size, surrounded by black). When using component video or HDMI in "video mode" (i.e. at a 480/576/720/1080) resolution, your only options are "full" (stretches to fill whole screen), or "original" (which is apparently aspect scaling, stretch as much as possible while preserving aspect ratio).
So there are scaling options, and they do work, they just don't give you every possible choice for each type of input. So when using a PC, you can't use aspect mode, and when using a video source, you can't choose 1:1. Very odd design decision, and pretty disappointing.
One question, Jim -- since you didn't try the original Xbox, has there been any confirmation that a 4:3 resolution will work properly with the scaling options over component? The manual seems to assume a widescreen resolution, so I'm wondering if it will always stretch the picture to a 16:9 aspect.
I also found it pretty odd that 1080i worked well with the Xbox but didn't look so good using other sources... why the inconsistency? The picture on the HD-DVD player sounds disappointing as well. I was under the impression that you would only get a blank screen if HDCP didn't work on a digital connection. Is there any way to verify that the resolution on the monitor actually was what it should be? Also, the 1080i limitation with this player was due to the player, right? Not the monitor? I wonder if 720p would have looked better...
I'll have to think hard about this one. I don't have any VGA video sources (no Xbox 360), so that's not really an issue for me (in fact, there's a rumored Xbox revision coming out at some point with HDMI, so if I decide to get one I'll wait until then
). VGA would only be used occasionally with my laptop, so that's fine. For HDMI PC use, my Nvidia card can take care of all the rest of the scaling options, so I can do aspect scaling that way if I want. My biggest concern is the support of future HDMI video devices. I find the disappointing quality of the HD-DVD player the most worrisome. I don't have anything like this now, so I'd hate to buy the monitor now and be happy with it for a while, and then have a rude awakening a year from now when I find out that it doesn't support the new device I just bought and it's too late to return it.By the way, as an aside, I know you consider the lack of s-video and composite to be a con, but I'm actually glad to see a monitor that doesn't make me pay for components I never intend to use. So that's a plus in my book.
Also, I am impressed with the ghosting scores. You never saw any of the "inverse ghosting" problems that others were worried about and have complained about on the Gateway?So I guess I'll have to wait on this one for a bit and see if others have better luck with other devices. Still, $699 at a B&M is tempting, so right now I think I'm leaning this way over the Dell or the BenQ...
Jim Robbins
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Yeah, don't kill me. *laugh* My wife would be even more ticked off!!
Anyway, the LG doesn't have as many scaling options or inputs as the Dell. It does Full, Original, and 1:1 modes via HDMI only. It does Full and 1:1 via VGA. It does Full and Original modes via component video.
Again, with the 360, 1080p would not kick in with the VGA cable. It kept switching back to 640x480. 1080p would not work on the component video cable, either.
The Dell is a better choice for 1080p 360 use. Of course, I like the BenQ the best, but it cost the most, and you have to mess with the scaler a little more.
I am really surprised that the LG didn't have more inputs or features considering it is the same price as the Dell. Oh well... You'll have your Dell, and you'll like it!!
Jim Robbins
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I did flip through on the XBox 360 at 480p. It does center it correctly in Original mode. It looks like it zooms in just ever so slightly so a very small portion of the top and bottom of the screen may be lost to overscan, but it was very minimal. I think it would work well for 480p sources on Component video.
I think the difference in 1080i came because I was using HDMI vs. Component video. It seemed like 1080i scaled nicely on component vid... However, it looked like it was dropping the odd frame from the Oppo, and did something funky ugly blocky with 1080i on my HDDVD player.
While the PC is using the HDMI port, you can change between Video and PC mode, therefore you can use all 3 options, Full, Original, and 1:1 on your PC. As for HD-DVD, I am guessing it will look better at 1080p (which works right when I just hooked up my laptop's DVI connection the HDMI port). I just tried 720p via my HD-DVD player, btw, and it still seems noisy, *sigh* That stinks...
Anyway, not a single one of the 3 monitors I played with specified HDMI 1.3 or 1.3a. So, I am guessing future devices may require newer protocols for the latest and greatest technology, anyway. Deep color won't be available on any of these monitors. Also, the little glitches I am seeing are very typical of what happens when you buy a $2000 to $3000 tv. I sell new technology every week, and it's all flaky. I program a computer every day, and you all know how perfect that is...
What do you get when you cross a watch and a Computer? You get a watch that crashes!
Same deal goes for all this stuff. Pick the stuff that bugs you the least, and go with that monitor. After all, every single one of them is going to bug you, and it might crash while it's doing that!! *laugh*
Later...
Jim Robbins
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Hi,
I should have been more clear,I want to see the two side by side,they do not have to be turned on and running,just a well lit pic or two,is all. tia
I'll bring them all home tonight and set up some side by side by side pics so you can see how aesthetically pleasing they are or aren't. I'll let you know when I have them on the site. Later!
Great LG review, since I'm going to be using my LCD only for PC use, I will prob check it out, and maybe buy one to test at home, I got a 15% bestbuy cupon
Did you tested it with PC games at all?
Jim Robbins
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Great LG review, since I'm going to be using my LCD only for PC use, I will prob check it out, and maybe buy one to test at home, I got a 15% bestbuy cupon
Did you tested it with PC games at all?
I only tried Guild Wars for 5 mins. It seemed pretty good. That isn't a game where I'd be able to tell if the lessened lag time would make a difference or not. But I'd say it looked pretty good. Heck, in reality, they all looked pretty darn good in Guild Wars. The BenQ is the only one I tried some other PC games on, so far. I am going to bring the LG into work after lunch and hook it up. My boss is into Company of Hereos, so I might have to give that a try... Of course, that isn't a good game to test the lag advantage either... But, I don't think any of the 3 have enough lag to make much of a difference. I can feel the lag at 50 and 60ms, but I can't at the 30ms level when I tried the BenQ. Later.
Vengance_01
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Why can't we get a monitor that just works like its suppose too LOL None of the 24inch LCDs are even close to doing everything. Its really sad in my eyes.
None of the 24inch LCDs are even close to doing everything. Its really sad in my eyes.Hmmm...I'm glad I stumbled on this review. Great job overall.
Need recommendation plz: If all I am going to be using my monitor for is PC use (gaming, web, and everyday computer usage) would the Dell 2407 be good for me. The 2407 is on sale right now for $629 and I have a stackable 15% off coupon that brings my total down to $566 delivered w/ tax.
Should I go Dell due to that price of $566? This will be my first LCD monitor, as I am currently running a NEC FE2111B.
Thanks.
Need recommendation plz: If all I am going to be using my monitor for is PC use (gaming, web, and everyday computer usage) would the Dell 2407 be good for me. The 2407 is on sale right now for $629 and I have a stackable 15% off coupon that brings my total down to $566 delivered w/ tax.
Should I go Dell due to that price of $566? This will be my first LCD monitor, as I am currently running a NEC FE2111B.
Thanks.
FYI: Did you guys see the new thread started last night, "BenQ FP241WZ another firmware upgrade comming soon (HDMI 1:1 mode fix)"?
Good to know, Jim, thanks.
Ah, ok, I missed this when I read the review. Thanks for pointing out the difference.
Interesting -- either I missed this in the manual or it wasn't clear that you could choose between the two. I thought that it was automatically decided for you based on the resolution. Thanks for clearing this up. Still, it's kind of a shame, since the PC is the one device which I can actually control these settings -- it would be nice to have all the options for VGA and component video devices as well.
Hehe, oh, believe me, I gave up looking for the "perfect" monitor the second I discovered the sorry state of what was actually out there.
Your point is well-taken -- I'm definitely willing to live with a few bugs, it's just that I'd much prefer to know what the bugs are going to be before I buy it -- this is very hard to do because I can't test devices with the monitor that I may buy in the future.It's like with the Dell 2407 -- people bought the early revisions, thinking they were "future-proof" since they came with HDCP, only to find out after a year that "oops, by the way, HDCP doesn't work at 1080p!". It's these sort of things that drive me crazy, since this information can usually only be found by having a contact with the company itself, or by reading on these types of forums where someone else has already been the guinea pig. I find it astounding that the customer service reps have no idea about the products they sell, and even worse, that the company itself is generally not responsible if their own reps give you bad info or if the specifications posted on their own websites are blatantly wrong! LG's website still lists the L245WP (the online-reseller version of this monitor) as S-IPS, even though it's well-known that the panel is P-MVA and people have contacted the company about this very issue. It baffles my mind that I need to be a detective just to get reliable info on a product like this, and worse, that none of the companies seem to be concerned at all about this -- it's simply accepted that consumers need to spend a lot of time researching, because "oh, that's just how the industry works!" Buyer beware.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. Those of us who are much more, uh, "conservative" buyers are lucky have people like you, Jim, who are willing to put in so much time selflessly writing up comparisons such as these for our benefit.
I think I'm still leaning towards the LG, but I'll probably wait a couple of weeks (hell, I waited 8 months, what's another few weeks, heh) to see if there's any good deals or if there's any other deal-breaking info I should know about. Jim Robbins
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CORRECTION!!! Sorry, I just hooked the LG up at work, and wanted to mess with the resolutions... It looks like Full and 1:1 are the only options available while hooked up to my PC. The Original mode option must have been coming up when I had one of the DVD players hooked up last night. Crap, it was like 2 am when I tested that and I can't remember now. I do know that I am not taking the monitor home again. Everything is finally set in it's place at home and work; I don't want to haul any more monitors around... I edited my showdown to match what I am saying here, btw. *grin*