Toyota Prius +2004 phase-change cooling system?

d50man said:
you are gonna dump that heat indoors....... good luck
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO!! Where I live, it's cool or cold much if not most of the year. It only means I won't have to ever run my heater ever again! All I'd have to do then, is wrap her in a latex skin, snuggle up next to her and coo. Oh baby, you're so nice and HOT!!

Cozy!
LOL!!

Shingoshi
 
Most of you who are gamers (and I'm not) overclocking cpus and running multiple HIGH WATTAGE graphics cards (also overclocked), are already dumping more heat into the local environment than this case will produce with twelve processors. So stop whining!

Shingoshi
 
Even though this thread specifically mentions the Toyota Prius as the candidate for the A/C compressor to be used, I thought about doing the same thing with any other brand last year. The basic task is to replace the A/C clutch with an electric motor. So I've spent much of this night looking for options to replace my intended target. I came up with this unit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PLR-2118/?image=large
Summit Racing is the same place I brought the oil coolers I'm using for my radiators. You might want to consider them as an alternative source for components.

Anyway, here's the request. If I'm not the only one looking for a unit that can accomplish this task, all of us are likely to find out much sooner just how easy it may be to do this. I really don't think it's that big of an undertaking. The most important thing that I can think of, is having a mounting pattern that will accept an appropriate motor for the job. I only specified the Prius compressor because it was already matched to a motor, and didn't need to be modified. For modification, the mounting pattern should likely be square. Although, I guess an adapter plate could be made. I mean, that is what we do, right...

Another thing which some of you have already hinted at, is not having too large of a compressor that requires a motor so large (as in draining too much energy), that it would become impractical.

So if any of you are willing to participate here and report back what you find out, that would be nice and much appreciated.

serpretetsky, help me out here!
Shingoshi
 
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Take a look at your local junkyards, I haven't seen any (granted, I haven't been looking) Priuses in them yet, but they're bound to start flooding the junkyards within a year or so given the volume they've sold. You'd need a decent amount of mechanical skill to identify a 2004/newer prius and remove the ac unit without damaging it. On the other hand, a sledge hammer and a really big electric saw could get the job done too. One thing you're going to have to be aware of, cooling well below room temperature creates a dangerous environment inside the case. Condensation will form on your tubing (especially if the fluid is below 0C/32F) and eventually build up and drip on your components. Fixing that should be as simple as putting some insulation around the first couple segments after the AC until the fluid is around ~20C/70F.
 
Crispy002 said:
Take a look at your local junkyards, I haven't seen any (granted, I haven't been looking) Priuses in them yet, but they're bound to start flooding the junkyards within a year or so given the volume they've sold. You'd need a decent amount of mechanical skill to identify a 2004/newer prius and remove the ac unit without damaging it. On the other hand, a sledge hammer and a really big electric saw could get the job done too. One thing you're going to have to be aware of, cooling well below room temperature creates a dangerous environment inside the case. Condensation will form on your tubing (especially if the fluid is below 0C/32F) and eventually build up and drip on your components. Fixing that should be as simple as putting some insulation around the first couple segments after the AC until the fluid is around ~20C/70F.
Click to expand...

The one I've put in bold text is the one that got me. Now, thanks for the interest and participation. I think there should be enough identifiers on the engine to dictate which year it is. But then again, it wouldn't be difficult for me to see which unit had a belt on it or not. No belts, it has to be electric. As far as the insulation goes, I may use some kind of spray-on foam for that.

I've already had some knowledge of getting anticondensation layers on my motherboard. I'll certainly do that again. I'm going to hold off for now on getting the board, since I think I would like to have a Tyan S4992 instead of the S4989. It has a slightly different configuration which may be more suited to my needs. But putting the board aside for now, I need to get the case so that I can do all of installation preparation before the components are ready to go in. I really need to make sure that everything will fit.

I especially want to getting the electrical connections installed first. Then I want to get the plumbing fully arranged. So here's the order I will likely proceed with:
1.) Get the case.
2.) Get the automotive radiator. Do all the mounting for it.
3.) Make my heavy-duty 230V extension cord.
4.) Install the waterproof locking receptacle.
5.) Get my reservoirs.
6.) Get my large pump.
7.) Get all the plumbing fixtures.

Steps 5 and 6 may be interchanged. And if necessitated, so will some of the others. Since I already have four Tyan S2912's, I can proceed with them first, while setting the money aside again for the S4992. I'm hoping Tyan will release the BIOS necessary to run the AMD six-core Istanbul processors. Hopefully that will occur by September, at which point I will then get the master board.

That's all I have for now. Thanks for the reply.

Shingoshi
 
Good to know some of the computer techs are familiar with real machines (wait a minute...did I just call a Prius a 'real' machine? HAH). Good luck finding a wrecked Prius, if I crash mine soon I'll send the part your direction.
 
Crispy002 said:
Good to know some of the computer techs are familiar with real machines (wait a minute...did I just call a Prius a 'real' machine? HAH). Good luck finding a wrecked Prius, if I crash mine soon I'll send the part your direction.
Click to expand...

What did you think of my suggestion in post #44?
I asked for feedback about using an A/C from a different model of car which used the standard belt/pulley driven system. How difficult do you think it would be to change the belt/pulley system for a motor instead?

Shingoshi
 
I don't think you are barking up the right tree here. a automotive AC system uses R134a refrigerant. Basically each "water block" in the CPUs, and chips sets would have to have an evaporator. All air conditioning and refrigeration relys on "phase change" been it some type of freon (R12, R134a) or even ammonia in large commercial freezers. The cooling effect when the liquid is expanded into a gas is how the whole thing works. This method isn't new for cooling CPUs. There once was a company that manufactured a PC that had a built in compressor, evaporators and condenser to cool the CPU for over clocking. This was back in the Celeron-A 300Mhz days. Those chips could be pushed to near 1Ghz with enough cooling. That was astounding in those days.
 
I decided to let this thread take it's own course over the holiday weekend and it has definitely delivered. You have ignored every inkling of knowledge I have tried to give you and disdained any real physics or thermodynamics I have introduced. All I'm trying to do is keep you from spending a bunch of money building a system in the false belief that it will net you supremely low temps. I haven't put numbers to it but I would bet that your system as you see it will net you CPU temps 10-20C below what they would be with no A/C system installed and only the LC loop. The temp change between the CPU output and the radiator inlet as it crosses the condenser will be slightly greater than the temp change between the rad outlet and the CPU inlet. Heat is not created or destroyed, only moved. Any power that the AC unit uses is dissipated in ambient or dumped into the condenser.

Let's assume ambient is 25C, radiator outlet in a perfect world is also 25C. Your target coolant temp can be 0C. That means that the evaporator reduces temps by 25C. Therefore the condenser must increase the coolant temp by 25C and then a little. CPU outlet is 10C, your ~1kw of power(still perfect world) has increased the fluid temp by 10C. The condenser in turn increases that temp by another 25C to 35C. Great, your radiator is taking fluid at 35 C and cooling it back to 25C. The cycle is complete. Wait a minute, your AC unit has changed temps of the fluid by 25C with a Delta T of 35C. That would be like a car AC unit cooling your car to 25C with an outside temp of 60C or 150F. If it takes 1kw of power to change the fluid temp by 10C then changing it by 25C would take 2.5 kw. Your AC unit is moving 2.5 kw of energy. Lets try another scenario.

Ambient is 20C(it's cold up there), target temp is -20C. Radiator outlet is at 20C, evaporator removes 40C of temp from the fluid. Happy CPUs take -20C liquid and heat it the same 10C as before to -10C. The condenser increases the temps by 40 C to 30C, once again your radiator is 10C above ambient and cools the liquid back to ambient and the cycle is complete. In this case your AC unit's delta T is from 30 to -20, so a 50C difference, and it must move 4kw of energy.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
I don't think you are barking up the right tree here. a automotive AC system uses R134a refrigerant. Basically each "water block" in the CPUs, and chips sets would have to have an evaporator. All air conditioning and refrigeration relys on "phase change" been it some type of freon (R12, R134a) or even ammonia in large commercial freezers. The cooling effect when the liquid is expanded into a gas is how the whole thing works. This method isn't new for cooling CPUs. There once was a company that manufactured a PC that had a built in compressor, evaporators and condenser to cool the CPU for over clocking. This was back in the Celeron-A 300Mhz days. Those chips could be pushed to near 1Ghz with enough cooling. That was astounding in those days.
Click to expand...

I am not using evaporators on each of the cpus. I never intended to. Instead, there will be a central evaporator responsible for cooling the antifreeze loop. That will significantly reduce the cost and complexity of this system. Basically, I'm building a water cooler which operates at sub-zero temperatures. Similar systems are used in supermarkets. What you probably are not aware of, is that they have a few central chillers running on ammonia refrigerant. Those systems then run the ammonia out to each of the freezers. My system is very similar to that. Look up heat transfer fluid systems.

But thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
What did you think of my suggestion in post #44?
I asked for feedback about using an A/C from a different model of car which used the standard belt/pulley driven system. How difficult do you think it would be to change the belt/pulley system for a motor instead?

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

I wouldn't support that idea. Adding an electric motor to turn a belt to drive an AC unit significantly adds to the complexity, size, and probably wastes more energy. Efficiency should be a top priority since as stated earlier the conservation of energy law means that heat is still going to end up somewhere, and waste heat is best kept to a minimum to keep ambient temps low. If you get desperate, I'm sure it could be made to work though. One thing to think about, do you really want a high rpm belt surrounded by very expensive, very fragile, computer components? If the belt snapped the resulting whiplash would probably destroy everything inside of the case.

Something else to consider, is heating up the room going to be an issue or no? If all you're concerned about is the temps inside the case you should be able to get pretty low at the expense of the room's temp. Generally speaking, the colder you want the components/fluid to be, the less efficient the cooling process is going to be.

Edit: Attaching an electric motor directly to an AC compressor via a welded shaft could be a viable idea provided the motor has enough torque/rpm to keep the AC running. One more thing, I hope you're not concerned about your energy bill, this cooling setup is pretty [H]ardcore, but I'd bet it's going to be [H]ard on the wallet too. If this was truly extreme, you'd toss a couple solar panels on your roof.
 
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When the winter comes, the heat output of the cooling system should be re-routed to heating the house.
 
Sorry I didn't get it to begin with.

If I understand you correctly, the basic premise is as follows.:
1.) In order for heat to be removed from the system, the coolant must be at a higher temperature than the ambient temperature. (I get that)
2.) Using an A/C system to lower the temperatures of the liquid-coolant, would lower those temperatures significantly below ambient. The result is no heat would be removed from the liquid-coolant if it were transfered out to a radiator.
3.) The only way to dump the internal heat of the system is to have the A/C condenser outside of the case, NOT a radiator.

So here's the change in plans:
1.) There will be no external radiator.
2.) There will be no submerged condenser.
3.) The A/C condenser will be mounted outside of the case.

This change will result in the proper removal of heat from the system. So now I need to find and purchase my large condenser.

Something I thought about as a result of writing Crispy002. I mentioned this system would be like having a sub-zero water cooler. So following that inspiration, I think I will look for a used water cooler, and modify it for this purpose instead.

So should I start a new thread, or continue with this one?

Shingoshi
 
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A quick search of Google, and I came up with this:
http://www.air-n-water.com/product/...-DA3F-DE11-B4E3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA
I don't think you could get much cheaper than this for a new unit.

Upon closer examination, I realize this unit is so small because it's a thermoelectric (peltier) device. Not exactly what I was looking for. So back to searching.

So now that I've opened up another horizon, who else will walk there?

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
If I understand you correctly, the basic premise is as follows.:
1.) In order for heat to be removed from the system, the coolant must be at a higher temperature than the ambient temperature. (I get that)
2.) Using an A/C system to lower the temperatures of the liquid-coolant, would lower those temperatures significantly below ambient. The result is no heat would be removed from the liquid-coolant if it were transfered out to a radiator.
3.) The only way to dump the internal heat of the system is to have the A/C condenser outside of the case, NOT a radiator.

So here's the change in plans:
1.) There will be no external radiator.
2.) There will be no submerged condenser.
3.) The A/C condenser will be mounted outside of the case.

This change will result in the proper removal of heat from the system. So now I need to find and purchase my large condenser.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

:confused: I had thought this was your plan from the beginning. I must've skipped over the part where a radiator was mentioned. I'd say continue on this thread, there's already a lot of information in it, it'd be a shame to let it die.
 
Crispy002 said:
:confused: I had thought this was your plan from the beginning. I must've skipped over the part where a radiator was mentioned. I'd say continue on this thread, there's already a lot of information in it, it'd be a shame to let it die.
Click to expand...

As is often the case, in the process of discussing and developing ideas, I sometimes get distracted from the main point. So let's clarify what the main point really is:

1.) To achieve the highest efficiency possible in cooling the liquid in my coolant loop to the lowest temperatures possible.
2.) In that line of thought, it is preferred that a form of refrigeration is used to cool the antifreeze mixture.
3.) This means replacing the radiators typically used, for a heat-exchanger instead.
4.) This heat-exchanger would be operated by an evaporator, like the one used in an A/C (or refrigeration) unit.

I hope that clarifies this. Sorry for the confusion. But I'll probably confuse you again, later on...:D

Shingoshi
 
Now if Flogge would show up and give some more feedback, that would be a good thing.

Shingoshi
 
If you have a refrigeration unit with enough capacity to dissipate all of your heat then your condenser should be your only heat dump for the whole system. This is what must happen in order to achieve anything very far under ambient. You might refer to this thread in Extreme cooling section for some ideas.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1424727
The only difference is that you are trying to cool to lower temps so your fluid will be something different that won't freeze.
 
flogge said:
If you have a refrigeration unit with enough capacity to dissipate all of your heat then your condenser should be your only heat dump for the whole system. This is what must happen in order to achieve anything very far under ambient. You might refer to this thread in Extreme cooling section for some ideas.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1424727
The only difference is that you are trying to cool to lower temps so your fluid will be something different that won't freeze.
Click to expand...

I'll look at the thread you posted, now.

Shingoshi
 
Naja002 said:
For sub-zero you are going to want to avoid derlin, acetal, plexi, etc. You'll want an all metal block like the all copper Heatkiller. If you are going "deep sub-zero" you will need to figure out your fluid.....then that may cause you to need your all metal block brazed shut.
Click to expand...

Naja002,
Fortunately, my blocks are all metal. That's why I chose them in the first place. I knew from the beginning that no nonmetallic block would work for my intended design. But the brazing idea is a bit intense. I haven't done any brazing since I was a kid. I mean, I could still do it. But that just sounds extreme!

Take a look at the Koolance CPU-340(330) design, and tell me if you really think such a measure would actually be required. I'd really rather not have to do that.

Yeah. And about the condensation issue. Here's a suggestion that I learned the hard way. Get fingernail polish. Completely seal the junction between the motherboard and the memory slots. The same thing can be done around any other device (like your pci slots) that accept plug parts. Fingernail polish dries very quickly. So you won't have the problem like I did, of having latex (is what I used for my sealant) siphoning up into the memory slots. That mistake cost me a lot of time sponging out the latex with alcohol soaked cottontip swabs.

Once you have the procedure done, you can then liberally apply sealant to the rest of the board without fear of contaminating any parts. Soak everything with lacquer if you want. Once you've blocked the slots being able to siphon liquid into them, you have nothing else to worry about.

Now, you can drive your temps as low as you want.

Shingoshi
 
Every damn time I buy something, I cringe. I just brought my liquid-coolant housings. They are a pair of Flowmatic Full Flow 20" housings with 1" female NPT threads. You can see them here:
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-2243-20-full-flow-clear-housing-1-press-relief.aspx

I spent big money on these, because I really wanted the clear housings. And since I contacted Pentek, I found out these housings are no longer available (at least from Pentek). So the only ones around, are in retailers. There won't be anymore.

The reasoning behind these being clear is two-fold.
1.) Operational observation
2.) Overall project cosmetics.

I really want this build to look like something that was snatched out of an alien ship. Having two very large reservoirs also will help to maintain more stable temperatures. And these are about as large as could be put inside this case. Look closely at the dimensions, and you'll see what I mean. They're humongous!!

When these things are filled and UV lights are on, they will look like plasma coolant chambers from the Enterprise. Or any other ship that doesn't really exist. And yes, I'm using 1" hoses for the internal system. I will run a manifold from the main coolant loop to 1/2" hoses on the cpus. So this system will look really awesome, all built inside a single Pelican 1780 Transport case.

I guess I have enough money left over right now to get my condenser(s) and other plumbing components. Then it'll be hurry up and wait until next month for the rest.

Shingoshi


Note: I think Pentek is the main manufacturer for all of these units. They're simply marketed and sold by other companies. So the reasoning was simple. Get it now, or don't get them at all.
 
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The housing really weren't expensive, or even qualify as "big money". It's just that they took a chunk of change I was going to spend on my case, which I intended yesterday to get first. But such is life.

I'll be really happy to have them!

Shingoshi
 
I went ahead and got my case (http://www.tactical-store.com/ts-pe-dx-1780transport.html). So I should be receiving the case right after I get my reservoirs. I really needed the case to make any further plans about how things should be laid out.

I'm now debating whether to lay it flat or stand it up. Standing her up offers the possibility of better liquid control. I have an idea that I need to look into. It's a compact version of a bong, using a super low-pressure vacuum, instead of blowing air over a wick. I have to verify the practicality of this. I know that it can be done. I just don't know how much it will contribute to lowering the temperatures throughout the system.

See this link for an idea of what I'm talking about:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1421690&goto=newpost
Since any liquid will boil if subjected to a high vacuum, I'm thinking of doing that in my application, in combination with the techniques for better efficiency.

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
Every damn time I buy something, I cringe. I just brought my liquid-coolant housings. They are a pair of Flowmatic Full Flow 20" housings with 1" female NPT threads. You can see them here:
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-2243-20-full-flow-clear-housing-1-press-relief.aspx
Click to expand...

# Operating Pressure: 30-100 PSI
# Operating Temperature: 40-100°F

How do you plan on providing the minimum 30psi required for operation?

Sub-zero is well below the rated low end temp of the item. How you gunna fix that?




Shingoshi said:
See this link for an idea of what I'm talking about:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1421690&goto=newpost
Since any liquid will boil if subjected to a high vacuum, I'm thinking of doing that in my application, in combination with the techniques for better efficiency.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

So, now you are going to incorporate miniature bongs and pull a vacuum?
 
Naja002 said:
# Operating Pressure: 30-100 PSI
# Operating Temperature: 40-100°F

How do you plan on providing the minimum 30psi required for operation?
1.) Sub-zero is well below the rated low end temp of the item. How you gunna fix that?
2.) So, now you are going to incorporate miniature bongs and pull a vacuum?
Click to expand...

Answers:
1.) Your concerns are valid. And I may be headed for disappointment here. However, I'm hoping that the advertised constraints are listed for sake of liability protection, and not determined by real physical limitations. But that may be the case. At which point I will have to make some modifications to my design. I may have been wrong (misread), but I thought the minimum temperature was -40F. I don't see how they could practically limit the usability of these units to just above the freezing point. Think about it for a moment. Would you want one of these things bursting inside your house if the electricity went out int the middle of winter. Maybe then you can see my point about liability.

Given the wall thickness of these units (rather substantial indeed), I don't see them becoming brittle at low temperatures. That also could be the case in which I'm screwed.

If all of this are the real limitations that I'm facing, then I'll have to be content with sub-ambient temperatures, instead of sub-freezing. I'll have a better idea of what I can do when I get my reservoirs next week. I just found out UPS updated my delivery time to one day earlier. So hopefully I will have them on Wednesday.

2.) Any chamber of any size can be used to produce a vacuum. I'm thinking of using eductors to create the vacuum I need. Alternatively, I could also use ultrasonic frequencies like those used in humidifiers.

Shingoshi
 
The purpose of the eductors are twofold. They will provide BOTH the suction and resultant pressure needed for this system. Suction will be managed by the degree of constriction on the intake of the vacuum chamber itself.

Shingoshi
 
I am by nature a research person. I devote myself to reading as many often "outdated" and obscure concepts as I can find. Many of them would be found to be very current once the principles for their existence are known. I'll give you a few examples of what I mean:

1.) Einstein Refrigeration Cycle.
2.) Vortex Tubes
3.) Eductors and Injectors.
4.) Hypersonic Venturis
5.) Ultrasonic Vaporization
6.) Endothermic Reactions
7.) Azeotropic Solutions
I will list more as I think of them.

I have the ability to synthesize numerous ideas/concepts into a working model. It's just something that I'm capable of. I can typically glance at something and make practical connections to technologies I was previously aware of. This allows me to combine things that others never thought possible. I create a conceptual tree on which I overlay/graft the concepts of new technologies.

Based on that fact, I will be applying the concept of your bong into a more condensed form. This is also why I thought of supercooling my liquid loop with a refrigerated system. I am building the entire system to fit inside of a Pelican 1780 case. So you can see that as large as it is, I'm still substantially limited as to what I can do in it. So volume management is premium. Here are the links to my project:

The main project;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264
The cooling system;
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1431845

Shingoshi
 
Hopefully some of these comments will answer or address questions that have or will be addressed here.

StarKiller, Lexan has a low temp rating of -60 and shouldn't have any problem with the temps in the cooling chamber. The view window for the cooling chamber will also have 1/2' Lexan.
Click to expand...

I'm going to leave this as it is and come back to it later.

Shingoshi
 
http://www.kemira.com/en/solutionsproducts/Pages/freezium.aspx

Freezium™ is a potassium formate based secondary coolant for indirect cooling systems.

Indirect cooling systems are being more and more applied due to the environmental discussions concerning the use of halocarbons as direct refrigerants.

Indirect cooling systems make use of a transport medium to bring the cold to where it is needed. This transport medium is usually called secondary refrigerant or secondary coolant.

The ideal secondary refrigerant should possess a good thermal conductivity, high specific heat and low viscosity. It is also important that the secondary coolant is non-toxic, non-flammable and compatible with common engineering materials.

Freezium is a secondary coolant offering all these benefits to help you transport cold in an economical and environmentally friendly way.

Freezium has been commercially available for a number of years and has been applied in many ice-rinks, food processing plants, chemical plants and cold storages. The most recent application has been in the refrigeration system on the Queen Mary II, the world’s largest cruise ship.
Click to expand...

An indirect cooling system is precisely what I was intending to build here.

Shingoshi
 
This is the very sort of thing I was thinking of doing to the inside of my case.
http://www.expandingfoamkits.co.uk/

I'm only concerned about how much I want to apply inside the case. So of the components will need to be removed at some point for reason that may not be anticipated. Hopefully, design failure won't be one of them.

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
Answers:
1.) Your concerns are valid. And I may be headed for disappointment here. However, I'm hoping that the advertised constraints are listed for sake of liability protection, and not determined by real physical limitations. But that may be the case. At which point I will have to make some modifications to my design. I may have been wrong (misread), but I thought the minimum temperature was -40F. I don't see how they could practically limit the usability of these units to just above the freezing point. Think about it for a moment. Would you want one of these things bursting inside your house if the electricity went out int the middle of winter. Maybe then you can see my point about liability.

Given the wall thickness of these units (rather substantial indeed), I don't see them becoming brittle at low temperatures. That also could be the case in which I'm screwed.

If all of this are the real limitations that I'm facing, then I'll have to be content with sub-ambient temperatures, instead of sub-freezing. I'll have a better idea of what I can do when I get my reservoirs next week. I just found out UPS updated my delivery time to one day earlier. So hopefully I will have them on Wednesday.


Shingoshi
Click to expand...

Reinforced polypropylene composition



Shingoshi said:
http://www.kemira.com/en/solutionsproducts/Pages/freezium.aspx



An indirect cooling system is precisely what I was intending to build here.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

Freezium material compatibility




Shingoshi said:
This is the very sort of thing I was thinking of doing to the inside of my case.
http://www.expandingfoamkits.co.uk/

I'm only concerned about how much I want to apply inside the case. So of the components will need to be removed at some point for reason that may not be anticipated. Hopefully, design failure won't be one of them.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...


Armaflex would be cheaper, easier and simpler.....
 
Wow! Thanks for that link. That would have been a disaster. I'm sure that I will face (but hopefully not experience) other disasters.

Keep keeping me informed!

Thanks!
Shingoshi
 
It can take temperatures from -40 deg F to 180 deg F (intermittent to 200 deg F).


Acrylic Sheet, Rod & Shapes

Acrylic Extruded Tubing, Heavy Duty


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

May be used in continuous service applications with temperatures ranging from -40 deg F to 240 deg F. Polycarbonate is UV stabilized giving it effective resistance to sun exposure. I

Polycarbonate & PETG® Sheet, Rod & Shapes


Polycarbonate Tubing


Understand though that these materials will start becoming brittle before you get close to -40F.


Pick up identical sheets and make your own res's. Do not buy their adhesive....I have it and there is much better stuff on the market.
 
Shingoshi said:
Even though this thread specifically mentions the Toyota Prius as the candidate for the A/C compressor to be used, I thought about doing the same thing with any other brand last year. The basic task is to replace the A/C clutch with an electric motor. So I've spent much of this night looking for options to replace my intended target. I came up with this unit:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PLR-2118/?image=large
Summit Racing is the same place I brought the oil coolers I'm using for my radiators. You might want to consider them as an alternative source for components.

Anyway, here's the request. If I'm not the only one looking for a unit that can accomplish this task, all of us are likely to find out much sooner just how easy it may be to do this. I really don't think it's that big of an undertaking. The most important thing that I can think of, is having a mounting pattern that will accept an appropriate motor for the job. I only specified the Prius compressor because it was already matched to a motor, and didn't need to be modified. For modification, the mounting pattern should likely be square. Although, I guess an adapter plate could be made. I mean, that is what we do, right...

Another thing which some of you have already hinted at, is not having too large of a compressor that requires a motor so large (as in draining too much energy), that it would become impractical.

So if any of you are willing to participate here and report back what you find out, that would be nice and much appreciated.

serpretetsky, help me out here!
Shingoshi
Click to expand...

Check out Vintage Air, they sell automotive air conditioning kits with electric drive compressors - intended for hot rods and vintage cars where belt drive off the engine is either impossible, inconvenient or aesthetically undesirable.
 
Shingoshi said:
I have an idea that I need to look into. It's a compact version of a bong, using a super low-pressure vacuum, instead of blowing air over a wick. I have to verify the practicality of this. I know that it can be done. I just don't know how much it will contribute to lowering the temperatures throughout the system.

See this link for an idea of what I'm talking about:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1421690&goto=newpost
Since any liquid will boil if subjected to a high vacuum, I'm thinking of doing that in my application, in combination with the techniques for better efficiency.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

I'd advise against it. Your proposed chilled liquid system is already pushing the limits of what can be done without a significant R&D budget, adding more novel cooling techniques increases project complexity, and thus the risk of failure.
 
Naja002 said:
Is there a reason(s) why you are so focused on an MVAC cooling system?
Click to expand...

Just because it's an automotive system, doesn't mean it's limited to automotive applications. The final solution and configuration would be entirely up to the needs of the user. The most important thing of all is to have interchangeable units (motors and compressors) that can be adapted.

As far as automotive systems go, you missed my point about this system needing to be positionally independent. That CANNOT be said for household units. Boating applications have the same requirements as automotive. And those requirements may even be more stringent. Stationary A/C systems, specifically the compressors cannot be tipped more than 30 degrees off-vertical. The lubricant in the compressor would otherwise mix with the refrigerant. Automotive units don't have that limitation. For that reason, they are the best if not only solution for this application.

Remember, this thread is a dependent of the Starbase Command thread (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264). So everything in this thread must be taken in the overall context of the main thread. I have this crazy obsession with having something that would have been right at home on the set of that TV show. I want it to look and act the part. The cooling system is meant to look like a Naquadah reactor. In fact, I'm not just drawing on Stargate, but Star Trek also. So yes, not only do I have specific cosmetic considerations, I have practical ones dictated by the cosmetics.

I'm currently regarding having this case stand up vertically. That will have the reservoirs in a vertical position as well. So they will have to be mounted into the side (front and back) walls, with the compressor mounted on the bottom (what would have been the end wall). That means that even during transit, the case would have to be tipped over flat, causing the compressor to flood. That can't be allowed. So yes, there is a real need for an automotive compressor. And that means for my situation, it HAS to be electrically powered.

I hope this explanation eliminates any further need to readdress this again.

Shingoshi
 
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