Toyota Prius +2004 phase-change cooling system?

The motor and compressor must have a NEMA-C mount. I think that's the standard for most industrial applications where electric motors are required. Getting a NEMA-C motor therefore won't be a problem. It's the compressor that I need to concentrate on now. I have to find a compressor with the BTU rating high enough to meet the demands of this system. And it needs to operated continuously. I learned that from reading another thread.

If the compressor were to stop for any period of time, it would take longer to achieve operational status (from restart), than the amount of time the temperature of the system would rise. For this reason, the compressor can NEVER be allowed to stop. It must be throttled instead by the speed of the motor. Again, this requires by necessity an electric motor.

It wouldn't matter to me if the compressor came out of a bus. As long as it could be powered by an electric motor which I can choose. However, sharing something now that I didn't intend to. I was looking for high-speed motors like the ones used on grinder. I'm certain the output of the compressor is directly dependent on the rpms it spins at. Given that, a smaller unit spinning at higher rpms could produce greater volume, exceeding a larger compressor spinning at lower rpms. So rather than be limited to the seemingly standard industrial (3450 rpm) specification, I want a motor that spins over 6000 rpm. That also means I could likely use a smaller motor. And again, I think an automotive compressor would be better suited to this demanding requirement. The compressors are lubricated in a different manner, and likely more capable of handling this.

When I think of more stuff to throw out here, I'll post and let all of you know.

Shingoshi
 
RagingDragon said:
I'd advise against it. Your proposed chilled liquid system is already pushing the limits of what can be done without a significant R&D budget, adding more novel cooling techniques increases project complexity, and thus the risk of failure.
Click to expand...

I really need to wait until I get the reservoirs before I can say definitely what my course of action will be. But it is my intention to employ each and every component in this system in a multifunctional capacity. That's why I said this will look and perform like a piece of alien technology.

Be patient son, knowledge will come to us all...
Shingoshi
 
:D Ummmm, No. HVAC compressors need to be vertical while they are running/in use. Tilting them more than 30 degrees for transport while they are not running--is not a big issue. I'm really not sure where you got they idea that HVAC compressor oil and the refrigerant cannot mix---that's what it does: there is oil throughout the system. Yes, the bulk of it is in the compressor, but the oil travels throughout the system with the refrigerant. What makes a compressor compatible with a refrigerant is the oil that it uses. Changing the oil allows a different refrigerant. You should know these things already....
 
If I have more than one technology operating in the same system, if one fails (or doesn't provide the full expected capacity), the others will recover for it. And the other thing is that the cooling capacity is then spread over multiple components. The only real units here capable of outright failure, are the compressor, motor and pump. That's another reason why I've also thought of having redundant pumps. Having a main pump, reinforced by a backing pump would lessen the load on each. The result is an extension of operational durability. But I've also considered using ultrasonic agitation for vaporization. Just wait for me to get my reservoirs. Then I'll be in a better position to answer the question we BOTH have about this.

Shingoshi
 
Naja002 said:
:D Ummmm, No. HVAC compressors need to be vertical while they are running/in use. Tilting them more than 30 degrees for transport while they are not running--is not a big issue. I'm really not sure where you got they idea that HVAC compressor oil and the refrigerant cannot mix---that's what it does: there is oil throughout the system. Yes, the bulk of it is in the compressor, but the oil travels throughout the system with the refrigerant. What makes a compressor compatible with a refrigerant is the oil that it uses. Changing the oil allows a different refrigerant. You should know these things already....
Click to expand...

It's been a while since I looked at that. But now that you mention it, I remember what you're saying. I remembered something about the oil. But forgot exactly how it was the limiting factor. Thanks for reminding me.

Shingoshi
 
I think I saw that R416a would be better suited to getting the low temperatures I've conspired to achieve. Let me know if I'm wrong there also.

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
It's been a while since I looked at that. But now that you mention it, I remember what you're saying. I remembered something about the oil. But forgot exactly how it was the limiting factor. Thanks for reminding me.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

The problem is that the oil in the compressor may fill the line and when the compressor is turn on--it will begin trying to "compress" (pump) the oil--it's not compressible, so it can damage the compressor. The simple trick is to stand the compressor (system) upright and allow the oil to drain back into the compressor before turning the system on. I've moved many refrigerators on their side---just stand them up and let them sit for a while before turning them on....never had a problem. Your system may very well be "transportable", but it's not going to be "portable" like a laptop is.....so, allowing it to stand upright after being transported should not be an issue. Then you have the possibility of always laying it on one side--if the variables allow, laying it on one side would allow the oil to drain into the suction side...once the compressor is turned on--it will suck the oil back in. Regardless of that--it would still need to be stood upright and allow the oil to drain into the bottom of the compressor where it needs to be....

Shingoshi said:
I think I saw that R416a would be better suited to getting the low temperatures I've conspired to achieve. Let me know if I'm wrong there also.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

MVAC systems are R-12 and R134a. Your refrigerant will be limited by the oil which is POE, IIRC. So, you are limited to POE compatible refrigerants.....unless the oil can be changed in an MVAC compressor. I would say: Yes. But I really don't know....



Systems will experience a loss of capacity, especially at lower temperatures.

http://www.refrigerants.com/hcfc-r416a.htm
 
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Todays lecture will address the theory and installation of a two-stage condenser system. Thanks to the insightful suggestions of Professor Naja002, the original theory has been modified accordingly. The initial flaw presented in using a single stage condenser being cooled by the cpu exhaust fluid of the cooling loop dictated that there be no transfer of heat to the system's exterior if only an external radiator were used. The temperature of the coolant-liquid would have been too low to be chilled by ambient temperatures. This has now been accounted for.

Today's class takes into account the following facts:
1.) We are using a fully optimized liquid-cooling loop. The efficiencies of which cannot be raised any further.
2.) We are using the slightly raised temperatures of the cpu exhaust liquid-coolant to initially (first-stage) deep condense our refrigerant from the external condenser.

The premise begins as follows:
Starting with the reservoirs as our first liquid-coolant stage:
1.) Fluid is drawn from the reservoirs (by suction from pump).
2.) Pressurized fluid is pumped into the (internal) first-stage heat-exchanger (evaporator super-chills liquid).
3.) Super-chilled liquid now moves into the processors.
A.) A logical branch occurs here, which will be explained later.
4.) The now highly condensed refrigerant enters the compressor.
5.) The highly compressed refrigerant is now evaporated in the second-stage heat-exchanger.
6.) The liquid-coolant now being extremely chilled is pumped to the cpus.

Now continuing from A. above, we address the refrigerant.
B.) Slightly warmed Coolant leaving the processors now deeply condenses the refrigerant from the (externally mounted) second-stage condenser (liquid-cooled super-condensed refrigerant).
C.) Super-chilled refrigerant enters the Compressor.
D.) Highly-compressed refrigerant evaporates in the first-stage heat-exchanger (evaporator).
E.) Evaporated refrigerant consumes the heat of the internal system (processors) and transfers it to the (external) second-stage condenser.

Both loops are now completed.
Hopefully my redundancy will eliminate any chance of confusion here.

Shingoshi
 
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Determine the efficiencies of the system as presently described. Taking into account the following factors:
1.) What's the lowest temperature that can be achieved in an isolated/standalone liquid-coolant loop?
2.) How much further refrigerant compression will be achieved by using the liquid-coolant loop in a heat-exchanger?
3.) How much lower will the temperature of the liquid-coolant fall as result of the evaporated refrigerant?
4.) What refrigerant will deliver the highest efficiencies for the system in question?
5.) How much would the liquid-coolant be assisted by the evaporation of butane held in suspension?

Would R-410a be a better solution?

Class dismissed! :D
Shingoshi
 
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If you are running dual condensors, and the secondary condensor is cooled by the chilled return liquid, then it may work. This has been done before I believe, and if not, then it has been discussed...somewhere

There is such a thing as an "autocascade" with mixed refrigerants using a single compressor.

http://www.under-the-ice.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=438&sid=127e128bb2aa9f4e1b827f0ba07f44af - maybe that will provide further insight, but I gather you were trying to avoid doing this. In any case, that forum may be of use.

Fortunately, once you familiarize yourself with the tedious formulas, the math behind the basic thermodynamic calculations you want to do is quite simple.
 
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Archmage said:
If you are running dual condensors, and the secondary condensor is cooled by the chilled return liquid, then it may work. This has been done before I believe, and if not, then it has been discussed...somewhere

There is such a thing as an "autocascade" with mixed refrigerants using a single compressor.

http://www.under-the-ice.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=438&sid=127e128bb2aa9f4e1b827f0ba07f44af - maybe that will provide further insight, but I gather you were trying to avoid doing this. In any case, that forum may be of use.

Fortunately, once you familiarize yourself with the tedious formulas, the math behind the basic thermodynamic calculations you want to do is quite simple.
Click to expand...

Thank you for providing it. I'm now reading it and will discuss any changes I make to my system afterwards.

I've joined that forum also!
Shingoshi
 
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Why do I have to be the one that thinks like this? I'm always coming up with these hairbrained schemes. So here's my latest.

After going to be earlier this morning, I was laying there thinking about this project (Yeah! It's the only woman I have to keep my mind on!). And I was having trouble rationalizing one of my tendencies to overdo things. You know the thinking. If some is good, more is better...

The problem surrounds my selection of a pump to drive this entire system. Mind you, I have a Swiftech MCP-655 in my current system now. I've never felt confident about it's size, volume and load. So I was already wanting to something larger. Now remember, I'm wanting to cool no less than twelve cpus. And I'm thinking of running separate lines to each of them. That means each cpu should have no less than the capacity of the MCP-655 provided individually.

I think the MCP-655 gives 5.8 GPM. Multiply that by 12 (the total number of processors in my system), and you have approximately 72 GPM. 72 GPM comes out to +4100 GPH. That's a big pump. So I've been looking for something close to that size. I think I have found it in the Danner Eugene Hy-Drive series. One in particular that I find attractive is the 4800 GPH model. But then, you need to know that my insanity doesn't stop there. No! I have to go and throw an eductor into the loop!

Now if any of you know anything about eductors, you'll know that they increase the volume of the water being pumped by drawing into the original flow, additional water. This is simple me taking efficiencies to the extreme. Maybe I'm compulsive-obsessive after all. Damn that woman who said so!

Now this becomes just fucking insane! Take the base performance capabilities of your eductor, which increases flow by a factor of five, and the result is just fucking insane. And to make matters worse, I'm thinking of driving the eductor into a tank-mixing eductor. That means I would have two eductors running in series. Shingoshi looks out the window for men in white coats. And I don't mean researchers to assist me in this endeavor. No! I mean like, "they're coming to take me away again...

Ok, so what does all of this insanity have to do with my project. Here's the simple explanation.
Energy produces Work <==> Work produces Energy
This is the thing that allows a mechanical device to either be a motor or a pump. Or, an engine or a compressor. The function of the device is defined by the flow of energy into an out of the device. And engine can be converted to being a compressor. And any pump can be converted to being a motor. Case in point, think of turbochargers.

Turbochargers are nothing more than centrifugal compressors which are driven by a working fluid. Do you see yet where I'm headed with this? And there's one characteristic that should really get your attention. When a turbocharger is operated, it converts the heat of it's working fluid into energy. In the process, it loses heat. Does that sound like something that applies here? It does.

Any moving fluid used as a motive, transfers heat in the process of motivation. I think this applies to turboexpanders (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboexpander).
A turboexpander, also referred to as a turbo-expander or an expansion turbine, is a centrifugal or axial flow turbine through which a high pressure gas is expanded to produce work that is often used to drive a compressor.[1][2][3]

Because work is extracted from the expanding high pressure gas, the expansion is an isentropic process (i.e., a constant entropy process) and the low pressure exhaust gas from the turbine is at a very low temperature, sometimes as low as &#8722;90 °C or less.

Turboexpanders are very widely used as sources of refrigeration in industrial processes such as the extraction of ethane and natural gas liquids (NGLs) from natural gas,[4] the liquefaction of gases (such as oxygen, nitrogen, helium, argon and krypton)[5][6] and other low-temperature processes.

Turboexpanders currently in operation range in size from about 750 W to about 7.5 MW (1 hp to about 10,000 hp).
Click to expand...

Now my thought last night (this morning) was to use the excess flow of my liquid-coolant system to drive the A/C compressor we've been discussing here. In other words, take the combined force of the pump, eductor and tank-mixing eductor, and drive my A/C compressor with it instead of an electric motor. It would be a form of low-pressure hydraulics.

But now that I've reread that definition of turboexpanders from Wikipedia, I'm thinking my liquid-cooling system could easily and independently produce sub-zero temperatures on it's own. It would simply be a matter of using the right expansion valves for pressurized a liquid, instead of a compressed gas. Adding a mixture of Butane to my liquid-coolant would only increase the effect in the process of expansion. Ammonia has commonly been used in this manner with the old propane refrigerators. The ammonia would evaporate from the water, and taking with it the heat of the water. In this case, it would be my antifreeze mixture.

Now I'm aware that ammonia doesn't play to well with antifreeze. It isn't absorbed as well. But I need to go back and check that to make sure. Butane however is easily absorbed by BOTH water and ethanol. So is propane for that matter. Using any gas in mixture with a liquid which evaporates, will lower the temperature of the liquid.

So now I have yet another course of action to investigate. And I may not have been all that insane after all. Thank God!

Shingoshi
 
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I just found this link while doing addition research. http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com...Edible-antifreeze-to-offer-ice-cream-advances
It presents just another point of remediation in the use of slurries in antifreeze mixtures. The point is to limit the size of the crystals formed to prevent clogging and subsequent failure of the system.

I was looking into something about soy-based antifreezes, trying to verify their existence and suitability for mixing with other known refrigerants. I'm still looking. If anyone knows where to find concise information on soy-based antifreeze, please post it here.

Shingoshi
 
water cooling system + big radiator + college fridge + milk jug filled with water.

and if youre still overheating. add salt to the water in the jug in the fridge.

shit this has to have been done before *searches*

if you see what im sayin.

plus it cools your drinks. :)

gonna edit this to not confuse anyone

dont use the water in the jug as the fluid cooling the cpu. lol seal it and shove a radiator in the water jug

or make it prettyful..... or use a jug..... lol

and stop using math. just get a big ass fridge if youre going to cool lots of CPU's

you can find them on craigslist for the cheap.
 
viperbite said:
water cooling system + big radiator + college fridge + milk jug filled with water.

and if youre still overheating. add salt to the water in the jug in the fridge.

shit this has to have been done before *searches*

if you see what im sayin.

plus it cools your drinks. :)

gonna edit this to not confuse anyone

dont use the water in the jug as the fluid cooling the cpu. lol seal it and shove a radiator in the water jug

or make it prettyful..... or use a jug..... lol

and stop using math. just get a big ass fridge if youre going to cool lots of CPU's

you can find them on craigslist for the cheap.
Click to expand...


fridges don't cool cpus very well. The condensor and compressor on a fridge are not designed for that kind of heat load. Many fridge condensors don't even have a fan.
 
Jonsey said:
fridges don't cool cpus very well. The condensor and compressor on a fridge are not designed for that kind of heat load. Many fridge condensors don't even have a fan.
Click to expand...

This. Fridges are made to keep things cold, not to cool things down. If you run a rad in a fridge, or in a jug of water (thus the fridge acts as a chiller), you can expect the fridge to die in about a year. Oh, and your electricity bill will be astronomical.
 
Shingoshi, look up "electric scroll compressors" :) They run 100% on power (no need to remove pulleys and stuff)

I design AC compressors for the automotive industry so if you need any help, I'll try my best to get any info you might need. However, this seems very complex/overkill for a computer application, but then again this place is called [H] for a reason :D

The biggest down side is going to be weight and the potential mess it "might" cause. The compressor alone (depending on which you go with), wet, will easily weigh around 10-15 lbs. Not only that, but these compressors aren't meant for extreme duty like a house/office AC systems. If you have this thing running for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week not only will it get expensive to power it, but you'll probably wear it out pretty quick as well. Oh, and it will be loud as hell too lol

with that said, let me know if you have any specific questions. I didn't have time to read through the whole thread.
 
dr.stevil said:
Shingoshi, look up "electric scroll compressors" :) They run 100% on power (no need to remove pulleys and stuff)

I design AC compressors for the automotive industry so if you need any help, I'll try my best to get any info you might need. However, this seems very complex/overkill for a computer application, but then again this place is called [H] for a reason :D

The biggest down side is going to be weight and the potential mess it "might" cause. The compressor alone (depending on which you go with), wet, will easily weigh around 10-15 lbs. Not only that, but these compressors aren't meant for extreme duty like a house/office AC systems. If you have this thing running for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week not only will it get expensive to power it, but you'll probably wear it out pretty quick as well. Oh, and it will be loud as hell too lol

with that said, let me know if you have any specific questions. I didn't have time to read through the whole thread.
Click to expand...

Did I say somewhere that I wanted this to look like an ALIEN technology, acquired by questionable means! This thread is actually a dependant of a larger project. Or maybe it might be considered in reverse. I need to get this system done to make the main goal possible. See it here:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264

The truth be said, I'm beginning to feel in over my head at times. The biggest issue of all is cost. I'm still looking for ways to maximize the performance of this system to offset the cost of building it. The offer of your help is GREATLY appreciated. I look forward to see if anyone else will step of the (HX)plate as well.

Shingoshi
 
viperbite said:
water cooling system + big radiator + college fridge + milk jug filled with water.

and if youre still overheating. add salt to the water in the jug in the fridge.

shit this has to have been done before *searches*

if you see what im sayin.

plus it cools your drinks. :)

gonna edit this to not confuse anyone

dont use the water in the jug as the fluid cooling the cpu. lol seal it and shove a radiator in the water jug

or make it prettyful..... or use a jug..... lol

and stop using math. just get a big ass fridge if youre going to cool lots of CPU's

you can find them on craigslist for the cheap.
Click to expand...

The whole purpose of the larger project of which this is only a part, is to create completely self-contained cluster (using multiple computers), with the liquid-cooling included. And the Pelican 1780 Transport case is what I'm building this entire system inside of:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1428264

Check out that link, and you'll see the larger context in which this fits (literally!).

Shingoshi
 
What I thought of doing was to use a vertical (toploading) minifreezer. I thought that using a 15-30gal plastic drum for my liquid-cooling fluid surrounded by many gel-packs, would have achieved the same thing as what you proposed here. The thing that kept me from doing that, is that I wanted everything in a single case. If I were building something that I knew would NEVER move, then that idea would have worked. But my objective here is completely different.

Shingoshi
 
Someone said something before about having to use evaporators on each cpu. And Naja002 stated something about needing to braze the nozzles on my cooling blocks. I'm extending upon those ideas here.

If I braze the nozzles in-place on my cooling blocks, would it be possible to use the Koolance CPU-330 cooling blocks as evaporators? They're all metal. So they wouldn't be a problem, materialistically speaking ;-). I might have to use some custom form of nozzle. But would that work? Then, I would have evaporators on every cpu. I would only need to use different tubing and connections.

If this is possible, I could build this system to use Phase-Change cooling as the main cooling mechanism. I could then if I wanted to, cool my evaporated gases with a liquid-cooling system, instead of the other way around. In other words, I would have this:

A liquid-cooled condenser in a Phase-Change system.

Shingoshi
 
Shingoshi said:
Someone said something before about having to use evaporators on each cpu. And Naja002 stated something about needing to braze the nozzles on my cooling blocks. I'm extending upon those ideas here.
Click to expand...


Actually what I said was you may need to braze the bolck---the entire block, not just the nozzles. It depends on how low you go temp-wise and what fluid you choose to use.


Shingoshi said:
If I braze the nozzles in-place on my cooling blocks, would it be possible to use the Koolance CPU-330 cooling blocks as evaporators? They're all metal. So they wouldn't be a problem, materialistically speaking ;-). I might have to use some custom form of nozzle. But would that work? Then, I would have evaporators on every cpu. I would only need to use different tubing and connections.

If this is possible, I could build this system to use Phase-Change cooling as the main cooling mechanism. I could then if I wanted to, cool my evaporated gases with a liquid-cooling system, instead of the other way around. In other words, I would have this:

A liquid-cooled condenser in a Phase-Change system.

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

Not sure what the downsides would be right off, but it would just be easier to use phase heads. More expensive sure, but they are made for the task.
 
As far as I can tell, they look solid. I just got up to look at them and make sure. There do seem to be points of possible discontinuity. But do you really think they would become points of leakage? Cosmetically, they're so pretty, just brazing the nozzles would be bad enough!

Shingoshi
 
But the case is now on the way, having been shipped today. So I think I should have it by Friday, hopefully!

Shingoshi
 
Good luck, I was lurking in this thread without comment until now. Just a thought, but I'm a little concerned about condensation, especially around where your hardware coolant lines meet the compressor lines, seeing as how this is a totally closed box.
 
CraftyChicken said:
Good luck, I was lurking in this thread without comment until now. Just a thought, but I'm a little concerned about condensation, especially around where your hardware coolant lines meet the compressor lines, seeing as how this is a totally closed box.
Click to expand...

I have no such concerns about condensation. I already know how to deal with it, just like the guys who do phase-change systems do. But what exactly do you see as the harm that would be possibly introduced here? Coolant and compressor lines aren't electrical components. But they could nonetheless be insulated and sealed.

Shingoshi
 
MOVING THIS POST TO THE CORRECT LOCATION:
Someone mentioned using a household compressor for this project. I dismissed it, thinking originally that this machine would be used in any position. I now realize this machine can only be used in an UPRIGHT position, due to the liquid-coolant's reservoirs.

Being that the reservoirs will need to be upright to allow for proper operation, I have removed the rejection of a using a household refrigeration compressor. So, with that now being the case, I'm wanting to know how (im)practical would it be to use a compressor intended for a residential heat-pump? I've been reading up on autocascades lately, and am wondering how using a compressor of that size would allow for the use of gases operating at much lower temperatures? I'm still considering other options...

Shingoshi
 
While looking for cheap Tecumseh compressors, I came up with this. I noticed that it is sold with the oil removed from the compressor. I'm wondering how many options exist with something like this (or any other) compressor that has been drained? Are compressors of this type more durable that household compressors?

Something like this would be good for my budget!

Hey Naj,
Would I likely have similar problems like what you are/were experiencing with your Plate conversion project?

Shingoshi
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
Shingoshi said:
I don't want this to sit too long in indecision. I need to know if these will work?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Refrigerati...286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo=LVI&itu=UCI&otn=2&ps=5
Do you have any idea how tall these are? I'm thinking of getting more than one of these for this low price. Are you familiar with these units? I've seen mention of them elsewhere here on this site and others.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3946905&postcount=28

Shingoshi
Click to expand...

According to the eBay posting the compressor is designed for R22 refrigerant. R22 (Chlorodifluoromethane) is an HCFC that is being phased out as per Montreal protocol; therefore, it will be difficult (if not impossible) to obtain, and there will by strict legal restrictions on use and disposal of R22 - that's probably why these units are being sold off so cheap. The compressor may (or may not) work with alternate refrigerants - the eBay posting includes part numbers so it should be possible to find out one way or another, but the cheap price leads me to suspect they either don't work with new (i.e. ozone friendly) refrigerants or would require significant modification to do so.
 
As an eBay Associate, HardForum may earn from qualifying purchases.
RagingDragon said:
According to the eBay posting the compressor is designed for R22 refrigerant. R22 (Chlorodifluoromethane) is an HCFC that is being phased out as per Montreal protocol; therefore, it will be difficult (if not impossible) to obtain, and there will by strict legal restrictions on use and disposal of R22 - that's probably why these units are being sold off so cheap. The compressor may (or may not) work with alternate refrigerants - the eBay posting includes part numbers so it should be possible to find out one way or another, but the cheap price leads me to suspect they either don't work with new (i.e. ozone friendly) refrigerants or would require significant modification to do so.
Click to expand...
It's too late now! I've already ordered them. I tried to get the Danfoss SC18CLX.2, but they were no longer available. In checking on these compressors, I read where someone was using propane and/or CO2 as the alternative refrigerant(s).

I know that the compressor oil is the biggest problem for changing refrigerants. I may have made a mistake. I'll just have to make the most of it. It's not like I can send them back now. So at this point I need to see what I can use in them. Yeah, and I got four of them at that price.

Shingoshi
 
And I'm certain there will be others as well.
http://www.refrigeration-engineer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1727
My primary concern is to get a refrigerant that is compatible with the oil in these compressors. My second concern is to get a refrigerant that will deliver much lower temperatures than what's possible with R-22. I really have the greatest interest in Propane. If there's no problem with the oils, then that's likely going to be one of my main components.

Shingoshi
 
Toyota Prius revealed C Concept car at 2011 Detroit Auto Show,Toyota Prius C where C stands for city-centric. see images...
toyotapriuscconcept.jpg

toyotapriuscconcept1.jpg

toyotapriuscconcept2.jpg

toyotapriuscconcept3.jpg

toyotapriuscconcept4.jpg

toyotapriuscconcept5.jpg
 
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