Will XBOX 360 look good on 2405FPW?

Yaka said:
for it to be specced HD ready it would need a HDCP dvi or hdmi port which it dont. it could be classed as HD ready but then some clowns would be buying it as a TV then bitching about the crap pic quality (ok not bad pic quality with sky dig but naff with freeview) or lack of tuner or even higer price compared to current prices of 26" tv.
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Actually, for it to be HD ready it only needs to follow the definition from when it was marketed:
HD-Ready: A High Definition television able to receive over-the-air HD signals only if paired with an external receiver to decode the signal.
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http://tv.about.com/od/glossary/a/letterEFGHI.htm
The 2405fpws main compatitor, the L2335 among others were profiling their components as HD compatible and HD ready.

The new EUROPEAN logo requirements for the HD ready LOGO is among other things HDCP as you say:
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds18570.html

HDCP itself is not an analog protection, but a digital one that doesn't work over components anyway.

Edit: The top picture was nice :D
 
Ummagumma said:
Did they ever test the components input here? Its a bit fuzzy. They fed analog HD through the AJA HDP, a 1080p trailer of a movie (1080p isn't possible through components). There is nothing spesific about testing the components here. Did I miss something? :confused:
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I will shoot them an email tonight and see if they respond regarding the component inputs as well as their testing methods. The device looks like it converts dvi but it's all a little fuzzy like you said. I figured analog HD would be the component input.. but we'll see. I am starting to wonder if their were different revisions of the 2405. Again.. I am also trying to find out that if it doesn't support anything higher than 480p.. then why is there a difference when switching resolutions? I am not talking about the people with x360's but myself personally with my HD box and also when I swap resolutions in XBMC. There should be no difference if that was the case.
 
magnetik said:
this whole thing is confusing! :confused: It also doesn't explain why there is a visual difference when I swap from 480p to 1080i on my HD pvr if it doesn't support it... and the fact that the scaler docs say it supports 1080i deinterlacing.
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Did you read the post about that on WGF? WGF?
The difference between 480p and 720p could be an effect of supersamling
Quote:
This method is allowing improving image quality considerably
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And the video inputs goes through an external decoder on the video board, while VGA and DVI goes directly through the genesis scaler according to the pdf on WGF. Therefore the video inputs are dependent on which capabilities the decoder have, not the main scaler. Can that have something to do with it?
 
Ummagumma said:
Did you read the post about that on WGF? WGF?


And the video inputs goes through an external decoder on the video board, while VGA and DVI goes directly through the genesis scaler according to the pdf on WGF. Therefore the video inputs are dependent on which capabilities the decoder have, not the main scaler. Can that have something to do with it?
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Yeah.. I read that.. but I seriously doubt if there was supersampling.. the difference would be as dramatic as what I see when I play 1080i content from my pvr.
 
magnetik said:
I will shoot them an email tonight and see if they respond regarding the component inputs as well as their testing methods. The device looks like it converts dvi but it's all a little fuzzy like you said. I figured analog HD would be the component input.. but we'll see. I am starting to wonder if their were different revisions of the 2405. Again.. I am also trying to find out that if it doesn't support anything higher than 480p.. then why is there a difference when switching resolutions? I am not talking about the people with x360's but myself personally with my HD box and also when I swap resolutions in XBMC. There should be no difference if that was the case.
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It would have been nice, since they might have some clever tests and equiptment. :D

There should be a difference anyway. Even if downconverted, the signal source is still not the same and that should change the output as well. :)
You may be right that there can be different revisions of the 2405fpw out there and that Dell didn't want to publish the upgrades due to all the recalls they could get and loose money... :)
 
Can anyone recommend me a good HDTV capture card? It's one way to check the quality of the image that my X360 is throwing out...
 
There are some VIVO GFX out on the market that has HD outputs with a dongle. Maybe you know someone that has this? Then you could show a still picture on both the DVI and the components and compare? :)
 
John:
Here (from Paddy the wak) are pictures of 1080i, 720p and 480p. Looks sharp at 480p, but you can also notice the famous jaggies. At 720p and 1080i the jaggies were gone. He experienced jaggies on his 2405fpw and not on his plasma: link

If you look closely, are these the jaggies you get? :)

480p:
480p%20-%20s.jpg


Closeup 480p:
480p%20-%20c.jpg


Closeup 720p:
720p%20-%20c.jpg


Johns comparison picture between 720p component and vga:
comparison.jpg


If you consider the differences between colors and lightning between components and VGA and look at PQ, and then compare the closeups from Paddy where both pictures are from components, what do you see then? ;) The plasma and the 2405fpw's components look the same at 720p? The 2405fpw`s components are closer to 480p or 720p? Or is VGA the only one that is close to the plasma's components at 720p? :confused:
 
I connected my PS2 via Monster Cable Component Cables, and it looks bland. The graphics still look "grainy" even at 480p and 1080i. (GT4 and Resident Evil 4).
 
John said:
More photos from me, taken of the NFS:MW demo.

http://www.weavo.net/x360/IMG_1252.jpg
Is the aspect ratio of 480p different to the others? It is on my 2405FPW... I get black bars to the left and the right, instead of above and below. (Yes, it's set to widescreen, and the 2405FPW is on aspect scaling mode.)

http://www.weavo.net/x360/IMG_1253.jpg - 480p

http://www.weavo.net/x360/IMG_1257.jpg - 720p

http://www.weavo.net/x360/IMG_1256.jpg - 1080i

http://www.weavo.net/x360/IMG_1261.jpg - VGA
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Definitly stick with the VGA!!! :eek:

480 is 2.5 of the screens total, while 720 is 1.6 and 1080 is 1.1 (1200/480). :)

Granted that what Gilly at WSGF said is correct:
its a little unfair using a pioneer at 480p, its the best looking plasma in SD too! i dunno exactly what it does to process SD content via Scart, Component, Composite and from the tuner, but it sure gives it the best picture in SD imo. Im interested in how well it copes with the 1080i despite being only 1024x768 res panel.... cheers for shots paddy!
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the 2405 should still be able to get close to the resolution at 720p in components if its supported. Looking at your pictures and seeing how it looks like on a HD screen, something is seriously wrong. Only on the VGA picture you could see the sharpness of the 720p. There were differences between the 480p and the 720p on the 2405, but that were to be expected since the signal input is different on each.

Its like the comment from qj.net forums about PGR3
Im running PGR3 on a Dell 2405fpw 24" LCD @ 1080i HD and it looks to me that every car comes with its own set of stairs!!

Poor work IMO, the era of HD gaming i still await
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Ok, so I have Dell 2405/360 combo and here's what I've determined thus far....

Too high a brightness level is the primary culprit behind the washed out colors in games using VGA. Just picked up Dead or Alive 4 yesterday and using the in-game visual controls (which go well beyond most titles) I was able to get an acceptable appearance. Colors still aren't component but are much better than before. Too bad you can't lower monitor brightness beyond zero as that would fix alot of my complaints.

There is no way that when using component cables my monitor is running 360 games at the same resolution as VGA unless somehow the washed out look of VGA is softening the image. Jaggies are everywhere.

I've been told that "VGA out on the 360 is sending different RGB levels than what your display considers normal for a VGA connection . If the display does not have a Levels (Video/PC) setting for the VGA input then you would be best suited to return to Component IMO ." Does this make sense to anyone?

I'm still left with a few questions, however.

1. Would changing VGA cables make any difference...like if I sprung for monster cables or something?

2. Can someone using component cables post their settings. Meaning brightness, contrast, and color settings? This would be GREATLY appreciated. I'm a video novice and have no real idea how to adjust this without going totally at random.

3. Is the fact my monitor is lacking a "video" option while using VGA likely the culprit? Would it be possible to adjust RGB color settings to get an acceptable picture that way and how would I go about doing it?

Again, thanks for the help. I've scoured the internet looking for people's advice on getting this monitor to work with my 360 in an acceptable manner and this thread is the best I've found thus far.
 
There is no way that when using component cables my monitor is running 360 games at the same resolution as VGA unless somehow the washed out look of VGA is softening the image. Jaggies are everywhere.
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Thank you for answering my question! People have had problems answering if the components looks like its at the same resolutions as the VGA. IMO VGA is at a higher res too! :)

I'll try to answer some of your questions :)
I've been told that "VGA out on the 360 is sending different RGB levels than what your display considers normal for a VGA connection . If the display does not have a Levels (Video/PC) setting for the VGA input then you would be best suited to return to Component IMO ." Does this make sense to anyone?
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He might refer to RGB vs. YUV. Read more here: http://www.zerocut.com/tech/vid_img.htm


1. As far as I have read, changing the cables wouldn't do much difference. Its not a "bad cable problem", but maybe a RGB vs. YUV as you referred to.

2. Don't know any of the settings, but if you put only the Y (luminance) cable in the 2405fpw (will give you a black and white picture), then you adjust the brightness and contrast to make it as sharp as possible. Plug then in the other cables. After this, you adjust 1. colors, 2. hue and 3 saturation to your liking. :)

3. Maybe there is a converter out there from YUV to RGB (if the xbox outputs the signals as YUV)? :) YUV (Luminance = Y, U = blue and V = red) is the same principals as components YPbPr (Luminance = Y, Pb = blue and Pr = red). RGB is simply Red, Green and Blue (usually also with horizontal sync and vertical sync).
 
Good comparison. Guess its a personal pref. I'm gonna stick with VGA.

Has anyone found a solution to this washed out colour problem?
 
Almost a month later... just wanted to see if anyone has found a solution to the washed out colours with the VGA cable and 2405FPW?
 
jaybird said:
Almost a month later... just wanted to see if anyone has found a solution to the washed out colours with the VGA cable and 2405FPW?
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Has anyone tried the XBOX360 on any other 24" LCD to see if there is any difference ? There's the Acer, dunno if that comes with component. Whats the point if one cannot use 1080 on component with the XBox360 ? :mad: I think I will wait for the next gen cards from ATI/NVidia
 
So you guys think that, overall, is it agreed that VGA on 720p is the best combination for xbox 360 on the 2405FPW? Or is the washed out colour too big an issue?
 
Almost a month later... just wanted to see if anyone has found a solution to the washed out colours with the VGA cable and 2405FPW?
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there is a solution I have found with the 2405FPW.

It requires going into the service menu while the vga is connected. Under the special factory settings hidden screen there are some settings for adjusting vga signals.

offset1: R G B
offset2: R G B
Gain : R G B.

I found that droping the values of offset1/offset2, slightly boosting gain helped get the vga blacks looking black, which offcourse brought the richness in the colours back in to the vga signal. then you can just tweak the brightness/constrast to your liking. Obviously changing these settings in the service menu will screw the colours on normal pc vga signals so if you do change these value write down the original defaults if you wish to set things back to normal.

but overall it gave me a huge improvement and I have colours/blacks with a bit of tinkering that match the component, but you get the smoother less jaggy/cleaness that the vga offers. I'll try and post the exact settings I'm currently using later and some screenies if i can.
 
Im having the same problem with the washed out colours on my 2005FPW when connected with the VGA cable.

I tried to correct it with brightness 0 and a contrast of about 60 but to no good.
i also looked in the service menu by holding menu button and + then selecting factory in the factory reset menu. But i cant find the options mozmo posted above in my service menu these are the options listed in my service menu :confused:

wb adjust 0
nvram unit
reset time
aging off
wprotect on
blue r 213 g 224 b 255
red r 255 g 236 b 217
normal r 255 g 255 b 255
elapsed time 0

Mozmo if you or anyone else could post how to excacly find the secret menu with the offset1, offset2 and gain options i would be ever so grateful :)
 
mozmo said:
there is a solution I have found with the 2405FPW.

It requires going into the service menu while the vga is connected. Under the special factory settings hidden screen there are some settings for adjusting vga signals.

offset1: R G B
offset2: R G B
Gain : R G B.

I found that droping the values of offset1/offset2, slightly boosting gain helped get the vga blacks looking black, which offcourse brought the richness in the colours back in to the vga signal. then you can just tweak the brightness/constrast to your liking. Obviously changing these settings in the service menu will screw the colours on normal pc vga signals so if you do change these value write down the original defaults if you wish to set things back to normal.

but overall it gave me a huge improvement and I have colours/blacks with a bit of tinkering that match the component, but you get the smoother less jaggy/cleaness that the vga offers. I'll try and post the exact settings I'm currently using later and some screenies if i can.
Click to expand...

Following Mozmo's advice I switched only went into the factory setting and changed only the offset 2. the RGB values were all relatively high so i took them down to zero and I have the image quality of the vga cables without the washout noramlly associated with it.

On a side note I've heard that there are different panels in the 2405. When I went into the factory mode, it says I have samsung ver 1.3 - i don't know if having a different version is what is preventing Deluzion fom seeing the additional offset and gain settings.
 
Ummagumma said:
Looks like people all over the world are experiencing problems with jaggies on the 2405fpw´s components. When so many reaches the same conclution:
there must be something wrong. 1080i is a 1920x1080 resolution as mentioned and should have less jaggies, not more on a native 1920x1200 display... 1360x768 is LOADS sharper according to him and this is also evident on Johns pictures. IF the 2405fpw should be able to display HD over components, then their experience goes against the very physics of resolutions... Can anyone explain this? :confused:
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I've been quoted from another forum... :eek:

For the record, after nearly 6 months of using the 360 with a 2405FPW I'd say this...720p support on component has been my weapon of choice for the colours alone. I believe the panel supports 720p without issue. 1080i exhibits crazy ghosting (as mentioned in this thread) and the interlacing is obvious on anything that moves. I haven't managed to get the dullness out of the VGA, but I haven't yet tried tweaking the factory menu much...I will soon. Last time I played in there I think I lost my factory settings so I'm somewhat hesitant!

My panel says 'Samsung V1.9' once the secret menu is activated.

edit: I played...admittedly I've only tried 2 different 3rd party VGA cables (official one coming soon), but even with the colours up to bearable levels the VGA lacks clarity. Swapped back to 720p, loaded up the exact same bit of Oblivion and the colours were far better and the textures far and away more sharp. Even factory menu tweaking couldn't sort out the blurriness...its not that the VGA gives a less aliased picture IMO, its that you can't see it for all the grey fogginess. The difference in texture quality that the component has over the VGA is like going from 'medium' settings to 'very high' in many recent PC games.
 
I have a 360 and a 2405, and I have been really enjoying it to death.
I play mostly sports games, though, and at 1080i, I have to say everything looks just great. Yes, there is a bit of ghosting, but nowhere near as much as I suspected; I think it has to do with the interlacing, maybe?

VGA just doesn't work for me, by contrast. It is waaay to washed out, and frankly, the depth of the images doesn't seem as complex as at 1080i. That could be my imagination, but to my eye, it certainly isn't as good.


Anyway, games like Madden 360, NBA 2k6 and even Fight Night 3 look just stunning at 1080i.
I did turn up color saturation quite a bit, though, and that seemed to make things even better.

Just thought I'd add my two cents..
 
think it depends on which firmware it is. ive had my 2405 over a year now and 1080i is fine mabe alittle ghosting, but on my firends 2 month old its quite bad
 
so i conclude its not possible to adjust offset1, offset2 and Gain on a 2005FPW to counter the washed out colors from xbox 360 vga like you can on the 2405FPW? Is it becuse it uses another panel? just seems odd to me.
 
Deluzion said:
so i conclude its not possible to adjust offset1, offset2 and Gain on a 2005FPW to counter the washed out colors from xbox 360 vga like you can on the 2405FPW? Is it becuse it uses another panel? just seems odd to me.
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I'd like to know too, for my 2007wfp.
 
I have tried watching movies on my 360 with the 2405fpw and the quality is horrible. Does anyone know what settings I should used to fix this issue. I can't seem to figure it out.
 
ill_ace said:
I have tried watching movies on my 360 with the 2405fpw and the quality is horrible. Does anyone know what settings I should used to fix this issue. I can't seem to figure it out.
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What cables are you using to connect your 360 to the monitor? It is suggested that you use the VGA cable, since the 2405 only supports a 480P signal through component.
 
cburwell said:
What cables are you using to connect your 360 to the monitor? It is suggested that you use the VGA cable, since the 2405 only supports a 480P signal through component.
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that is incorrect. The limitation is the output on the 360. However there may be different revs of the 2405. but my 2405 looks great in HD coming from my Comcast HD box

viewtopic.php

P1010109.JPG
 
magnetik said:
that is incorrect. The limitation is the output on the 360. However there may be different revs of the 2405. but my 2405 looks great in HD coming from my Comcast HD box
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On my 2405FPW, even when it says 1080i it's actually delivering 480p from my Xbox 360.
 
I am using component cables and my monitor is version samsung 1.9. I have tried a lot of things and it all looks terrible.
 
John said:
On my 2405FPW, even when it says 1080i it's actually delivering 480p from my Xbox 360.
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that is correct.. since your xbox is upscaling before it get's to the 2405... I was responding to the previous poster that said that the 2405 would not accept input greater than 480p...
 
ill_ace said:
I am using component cables and my monitor is version samsung 1.9. I have tried a lot of things and it all looks terrible.
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I am thinking there were some revisions made to the 2405... because mine is a 1.3 and looks great on HD (off my hd cable box). There are others that say it's great and others such as yourself that say it's terrible.
 
magnetik said:
that is correct.. since your xbox is upscaling before it get's to the 2405... I was responding to the previous poster that said that the 2405 would not accept input greater than 480p...
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No, I mean my Xbox 360 is outputting 1080i - and what is on the screen clearly isn't 1080i, even though that's what the 2405FPW reports.
 
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