Windows Vista...coming in 7 freakin versions...

[SpeedRunner]

Sounds like Home Premium or Ultimate would be the best choice for gaming. Hopefully the prices on both of them arent too high.

 

[number69]

No, they all took it from Ghost.

OS X has it's own built in imaging tool. That's what I meant when I said they got one good idea from OS X, a built in imaging tool. I didn't say Apple created imaging.

 

[cuemasterfl]

I swear to God, if they increased the registration and activation bullshit, im learning Linux.

All the BS in the world wouldn't force me into doing that.

 

[drizzt81]

I swear to God, if they increased the registration and activation bullshit, im learning Linux.

/foreshadowing
Yeah, for registration you will need go to a MS Registration Office (MSRO) have your prints and DNA taken. When you are trying to load windows, it compares the fingerprints you leave on the keyboard -as well as the dna- to what you left at the MSRO. If it doesn't match, your windows version is deactivated immediately and they are sending the RIAA your way.

 

[Phoenix86]

OS X has it's own built in imaging tool. That's what I meant when I said they got one good idea from OS X, a built in imaging tool. I didn't say Apple created imaging.

Nor did they invent the mouse.

I always see this crap all the time (MS stole X idea from Y). Apple MS and linux use eachother's ideas like mad. It's really not even "their" ideas in the first place more often then not. You can't have an idea stolen from your that you already "stole" from some else.

Just because someone implements something first doesn't make it "theirs".

OMG Apple stole the multi-button mouse idea!!!11one!1

 

[Digital-Vortex]

/foreshadowing
Yeah, for registration you will need go to a MS Registration Office (MSRO) have your prints and DNA taken. When you are trying to load windows, it compares the fingerprints you leave on the keyboard -as well as the dna- to what you left at the MSRO. If it doesn't match, your windows version is deactivated immediately and they are sending the RIAA your way.

Does a jar of piss count as DNA?

 

[kuyaglen]

Hopefully there will be widespread support for the 64bit versions. But which ones will connect with the XBox 360?

 

[eeyrjmr]

Hopefully there will be widespread support for the 64bit versions. But which ones will connect with the XBox 360?

none, since the Xbox360 PPC based

I thoguht MS wanted to go away from multi-OS releases since it complicated maintence.

They tried with ME and 2k, got it almost right with XP-Home and XP-Pro now they bring out 7!!!! subtlly different OS's well good luck to them

It seems that the Extream is the only one for gamers really

Home and entry too restrictive. Busness and Pro models start having the feature gamers want, but they dont support games leaving the Extreme edition which is the combination of all the other 6

My guess is home will cost £100 and pro hitting £300 then Extreme will just be £500 to cash in on gamers

 

[number69]

Nor did they invent the mouse.

I always see this crap all the time (MS stole X idea from Y). Apple MS and linux use eachother's ideas like mad. It's really not even "their" ideas in the first place more often then not. You can't have an idea stolen from your that you already "stole" from some else.

Just because someone implements something first doesn't make it "theirs".

OMG Apple stole the multi-button mouse idea!!!11one!1

I always see this crap all the time when somebody get's bent over a post from somebody they don't know.

I didn't use the words "they stole it". Just pointing out it's a good idea that was implemented in OS X and know MS is going to implement it. I'll admit I assumed they got it from OS X so my bad.

Either way it's a good idea.

Now relax and let's get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Frank_Fuster]

Ugh... MS is still gonna offer 32 bit versions... DAMITT! there goes accelerated 64 bit driver creation by manufacturers for us 64 bit OS guys.

 

[Night Fox]

According to various sources that received a copy of the latest build (5219) of Vista, the serial number used determines which version of the OS is installed.

I wonder if it will stay this way once it hits retail... as it is quite ludicrous to master 7 different OS cds.

 

[BobSutan]

I swear to God, if they increased the registration and activation bullshit, im learning Linux.

Better start cracking the books. I see no reason they'll let up on the DRM and copy protection mechanisms. Unless there is a major public backlash and they actully feel a threat of not making money on the OS they have no reason to ease up. To put it another way, they have no incentive to not harm those that pay for their products since they keep forking over the cash. If and when the cash stops flowing will they ever consider the cause. Look at how corrupt our government is with lobbying and corporate influences. Has anything happened because of it (besides American's loosing their jobs, houses, etc).
/rant

Back on track, just what's my incentive to upgrade from XP exactly? What does Vista have that I just have to get??? All the cool stuff I'd been waiting for was gutted.

 

[Footer4321]

lets hope and pray that x86 osX is out by then or im just going to stay with xp or buy a mac

 

[zone_86]

Back on track, just what's my incentive to upgrade from XP exactly? What does Vista have that I just have to get??? All the cool stuff I'd been waiting for was gutted.

I could not agree more. Vista will not be anything significant over XP. A trimmed won Vista will be much like XP anyway. I don't think i will go with Vista until possibly serice pack 2 or 3 might be released if at all. In other words i don't think Vista will have as much to offer VS. XP as XP did with 98SE.

 

[Tiny]

none, since the Xbox360 PPC based

Not true but some-what factual.


All the ones with MCE-like capabilities will, so Vista Home Premium will.

 

[Shane]

I heard all flavors of the windows vista will be free to all customers that have access to google and any p2p software is this true ? hehe

 

[S1nF1xx]

Back on track, just what's my incentive to upgrade from XP exactly? What does Vista have that I just have to get??? All the cool stuff I'd been waiting for was gutted.

It's going to be a lot bigger improvement over XP than XP was over 2000. So if you upgraded from 2K to XP there's your incentive.

When WinFS finally rolls around that should be all the incentive we need if it's all it's cracked up to be.

 

[elm669]

Better start cracking the books. I see no reason they'll let up on the DRM and copy protection mechanisms. Unless there is a major public backlash and they actully feel a threat of not making money on the OS they have no reason to ease up. To put it another way, they have no incentive to not harm those that pay for their products since they keep forking over the cash. If and when the cash stops flowing will they ever consider the cause. Look at how corrupt our government is with lobbying and corporate influences. Has anything happened because of it (besides American's loosing their jobs, houses, etc).
/rant

Back on track, just what's my incentive to upgrade from XP exactly? What does Vista have that I just have to get??? All the cool stuff I'd been waiting for was gutted.

I could not agree more with all of this.

2 computer running linux down 3 to go.

 

[Phoenix86]

Back on track, just what's my incentive to upgrade from XP exactly? What does Vista have that I just have to get??? All the cool stuff I'd been waiting for was gutted.

Simple answer?
I'm still running 2K at home w/o issue, heck I could also run office 97 w/o issue...

Of course nothing's simple.
In a business environment there are benefits, some added security stuff and deployment tools. It'll be little stuff that makes the world of help in administration.

Everyone could use Ximage as a ghost replacement. Heck not all of us have/use images, so this could be a real nice feature for those folks. I'm excited about it.

 

[BobSutan]

In a business environment there are benefits, some added security stuff and deployment tools. It'll be little stuff that makes the world of help in administration.

Everyone could use Ximage as a ghost replacement. Heck not all of us have/use images, so this could be a real nice feature for those folks. I'm excited about it.

Eh, not so fast. Every single corporate entity that I've every worked for/with has maintained a cooling-off period with a new software release. In the case of operating systems we've waited upwards of 2 years (and sometimes more) before upgrading to the next best thing. (Hell, in some instances we skipped entire product cycles because the new features being rolled out were not essential for operations, but that's another story in itself). Regardless, by waiting for a product to mature we ensured we always got a [more] stable product and that the major security holes had be found and patched. To say that upgrading for security is the way to go doesn't make sense from a historical perspective. That's not to say some corporations don't upgrade at the drop of a hat, but for the early adopters they often end up getting burned. There was a really decent article on computer security posted the other day that included a portion about being an early adopter (item #6), and it pretty much boiled down to showing only the unwise or uneducated (ie management) were the ones that were willing to throw money into something that's just out of beta.

When it comes to computers and computer security, I now live by 2 guiding rules:

"Keep it simple, stupid" (the famous KISS methodology)

And,

"It is often easier to not do something dumb than it is to do something smart."

 

[Phoenix86]

Eh, not so fast. Every single corporate entity that I've every worked for/with has maintained a cooling-off period with a new software release. In the case of operating systems we've waited upwards of 2 years (and sometimes more) before upgrading to the next best thing. (Hell, in some instances we skipped entire product cycles because the new features being rolled out were not essential for operations, but that's another story in itself). Regardless, by waiting for a product to mature we ensured we always got a [more] stable product and that the major security holes had be found and patched. To say that upgrading for security is the way to go doesn't make sense from a historical perspective. That's not to say some corporations don't upgrade at the drop of a hat, but for the early adopters they often end up getting burned. There was a really decent article on computer security posted the other day that included a portion about being an early adopter (item #6), and it pretty much boiled down to showing only the unwise or uneducated (ie management) were the ones that were willing to throw money into something that's just out of beta.

True, the need/want for the extra features is generally balanced by the need for stability/usability. Software incompatibility's a bitch too. Sure a good company has products out before/shortly after the OS going gold, but not everyone. If you company relies on an app that isn't compatible with the new OS, you wait. Simple as that.

However, none of that takes away from the need/want to upgrade, it just means you should wait until the time is good to make the move. Your comparing time to adopt when the question you asked was "why upgrade?", not "when to upgrade?".

 

[oldpablo]

Eh, not so fast. Every single corporate entity that I've every worked for/with has maintained a cooling-off period with a new software release. In the case of operating systems we've waited upwards of 2 years (and sometimes more) before upgrading to the next best thing. (Hell, in some instances we skipped entire product cycles because the new features being rolled out were not essential for operations, but that's another story in itself). Regardless, by waiting for a product to mature we ensured we always got a [more] stable product and that the major security holes had be found and patched. To say that upgrading for security is the way to go doesn't make sense from a historical perspective. That's not to say some corporations don't upgrade at the drop of a hat, but for the early adopters they often end up getting burned. There was a really decent article on computer security posted the other day that included a portion about being an early adopter (item #6), and it pretty much boiled down to showing only the unwise or uneducated (ie management) were the ones that were willing to throw money into something that's just out of beta.

That's one way of looking at it, however here's another. Many companies (massive companies even) actually fully test the products in beta sometimes more then a year before its launch. Therefore when it launchs they have fully tested all they need to test and they can then move immediately to the new platform and gain its benefits immediately. In my mind, thats the way to do it. If they do that every time, each OS gets a good amount of usage beforehand and the money is always invested well. Its all due to proper beta testing beforehand. I know companies that chomp at the bit to get things RTM so that they can finally jump to it after all of their testing.

 

[BobSutan]

That's one way of looking at it, however here's another. Many companies (massive companies even) actually fully test the products in beta sometimes more then a year before its launch. Therefore when it launchs they have fully tested all they need to test and they can then move immediately to the new platform and gain its benefits immediately. In my mind, thats the way to do it. If they do that every time, each OS gets a good amount of usage beforehand and the money is always invested well. Its all due to proper beta testing beforehand. I know companies that chomp at the bit to get things RTM so that they can finally jump to it after all of their testing.

Ah, good point.

Pheonix, keep in mind that we're dealing with a somewhat unique situation with Vista. "Why upgrade?" can be replaced with "When to upgrade?" because MS has already made it known that features will be rolled into the OS at a later date. Excluding Vista and the exception to the rules, such as the one OldPueblo noted above, the rest of us need to put some hard thought into the dangers of early adoption (consider it due diligence). It might just save your job one day...

 

[Optimus]

I swear to God, if they increased the registration and activation bullshit, im learning Linux.

They did. At least, with the beta you have to reactivate every 30 days.

 

[mrweasel]

This is making OS X more attractive to the average user more and more everyday...not that I biased or anything

 

[qdemn7]

You can thank all the sue-happy, blowhard politicians and beauracrats, in the US and Europe for this horse manure. Every time you turn around MS is being sued somehwere (think deep pockets), for "being anti-compettitve". So, be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.

 

[eddie the dane]

The only reason that keeps me from going OSX or Linux is games. My initial reaction to Vista is "forget it, I'll stick with XP pro". But, with DirectX10 coming out with Vista, what is going to to happen to game development. Troubleshooting issues in games post-Vista-release might get very complicated. DX10 is supposed to be backward compatible but that does't mean that new games will run on DX9 for Windows XP. That just means that you can run older DX games on a DX10 platform. Sooner or later, developers will have to make the jump to DX10 and that could mean leaving everyone who's legacy in the dust. That seems much more drastic than any other generation of the DirectX history.

Game developers will cater to the majority - Who is the majority... dell, compaq, etc buyers. Well, with the new display properties in Vista, I don't see the days of a $600 starter system from dell anymore with the cost of new displays that don't even exist yet (but I can venture to guess that Dell's gonna have to pay more than $100 for them). That will certainly slow down the sales of new bundled consumer systems. Right?

So what will happen with PC Games? Personally, I would like to see nVidia and ATi ditch DX altogether and construct an API all their own.

 

[ReaperofDreams]

Am I the only one that finds it interesting that it says the Ultimate Edition is recommended for Students. As a broke college student, and knowing Microsoft's pricing schemes, students won't be able to afford the operating system.


Now what's this about castle networking they kept mentioning? It's not a term I've heard before.

 

[Optimus]

Back on track, just what's my incentive to upgrade from XP exactly? What does Vista have that I just have to get??? All the cool stuff I'd been waiting for was gutted.

Well, it's actually quite simple. Vista has upgrades and support. Mark my words, before Vista SP1 releases, Microsoft will dissavow any knowledge of Windows XP. Nor will they provide patches to security holes.

Am I the only one that finds it interesting that it says the Ultimate Edition is recommended for Students. As a broke college student, and knowing Microsoft's pricing schemes, students won't be able to afford the operating system.

I was wondering if anyone else was going to notice that. Like it's not enough that the University and the Book Store and the other "Student Edition" software companies are always telling students to bend over and like it, now Microshaft wants to give them their microshaft.

 

[CaptRingold]

Am I the only one that finds it interesting that it says the Ultimate Edition is recommended for Students. As a broke college student, and knowing Microsoft's pricing schemes, students won't be able to afford the operating system.


Now what's this about castle networking they kept mentioning? It's not a term I've heard before.

I totally agree with the students part, that just made me laugh. I just plunked down some cash a few months ago on XP x64, and unless Ultimate is between 100 to 200 OEM / on the cheap, then.. well, why bother?

And reactivate every 30 days? Lol, right, I'm going to take a legal copy off, throw it in the trash, and go download a pirated version just for giggles. Nice thinking, MS.

And not forcing 64bit software is just sort of stupid, I think. That'd be a nice nudge to, within a couple years, get most of the important stuff in 64bit. XP Pro x64 is backward compatible with 32bit software anyway, so Vista should be as well, so why NOT do that? All new PCs come with the capability anyway, and older machines probably will lag like a pig in mud anyway.

 

[Phoenix86]

Pheonix, keep in mind that we're dealing with a somewhat unique situation with Vista. "Why upgrade?" can be replaced with "When to upgrade?" because MS has already made it known that features will be rolled into the OS at a later date. Excluding Vista and the exception to the rules, such as the one OldPueblo noted above, the rest of us need to put some hard thought into the dangers of early adoption (consider it due diligence). It might just save your job one day...

Well the arguments for "why" don't always apply to "when". I agree with the general philosophy of wait and see on timing for any OS release. I'm one of the people who push for extra testing since I know I'll have to deal with the fallout of a bad decision (even if it's not mine).

 

[ir0nw0lf]

Didn't see anyone here mention this yet, but in the tabular feature breakdown on Paul's Supersite, there is something listed as "Windows Activation Services," and is showing YES for the Home versions and NO for the business/ultimate versions. Any idea what this might be about?

 

[ElBarto79]

People love to rip on MS but I dont see anything too horrible. People seem to be ok with the system now and there are how many versions of XP??? Let's see right off the top of my head there is Home, Pro, Media Center, x64 and Tablet PC, thats five right there. And if you add in all the server and pocket pc versions it's quite a few more. Of course people will say thats not really the same thing because realistically for most users there are only 2 versions of XP they need to worry about; home and pro. And to that I say exactly, I imagine 3 or 4 Vista versions will make up the bulk of the home user market and that really ain't anything too confusing. Starter edition won't even be available anywhere so you can cross that off, that knocks it down to 6, Enterprise edition won't be available in stores either if you read the description, that takes it to 5, and I imagine Home basic will not make up a large part of the market since it seems so crippled. So taking a look now for most users their choices will realistically be Home Premium, Pro, Small Business and Ultimate. Now come on, is having to choose between 4 versions instead of 2 really so terrible??? Give me a break whiners.

 

[Phoenix86]

Now come on, is having to choose between 4 versions instead of 2 really so terrible??? Give me a break whiners.

While I tend to agree, have you seen how many "should I get pro or home" posts there have been? Seriously.

 

[Night Fox]

Now come on, is having to choose between 4 versions instead of 2 really so terrible??? Give me a break whiners.

The versions are going to be more widespread than you proclaim because there is nothing stopping the hundreds of OEMs from using any of the different versions. Dell may prefer the Home Basic as their primary install, whereas HP/Compaq may chose Pro; the list goes on. The current versions of XP are very easy to segregate because they are described in a manner which only a complete crack-sniffing idiot couldn't tell them apart.

XP Home - obviously the most basic version, primarily installed on "Big Box" computers.

XP Pro - Advanced features for the advanced user, or business.

XP Tablet - C'mon, how hard is this one to figure out.

 

[BobSutan]

So what will happen with PC Games? Personally, I would like to see nVidia and ATi ditch DX altogether and construct an API all their own.

No need to. We already have OpenGL

 

[ItsTooHot]

Windows Small Business Edition and Enterprise Editions used to be server versions. Is this still the case? Or will we now have different words to learn for the server side as well?

 

[S1nF1xx]

While I tend to agree, have you seen how many "should I get pro or home" posts there have been? Seriously.

Exactly. It's a fucking nightmare telling clients they NEED XP PRO to use our software (need IIS). They go to Best Buy and get a computer with Home on it all the time. It's sad.

After thinking about it for a while, I've come to see that it's not going to be much different with Vista. Dell is going to shove Vista Home (XP Home) and Vista Ultimate (XP Pro) down everyone's throat (my guess). So home users will still only have 2 options. I would imagine the step from Vista Home to Vista Ultimate will be much steeper pricewise than XP Home >Pro is though

 

[eddie the dane]

No need to. We already have OpenGL

I'd thought of that but how many games are primarily using OpenGL now (not just support it but really expand on it)? And microsoft certainly isn't going to make the needed overhaul of OpenGL any easier than they have to.

 

[BladeVenom]

Actually won't there be 28 editions? Start with 7 main editions, then there will be 32 and 64 bit editions of those, so that's 14 versions. Then they'll also have to have their N, no media, versions of those. So we are looking at 28 flavors of Windows Vista, and that's just to start with.

What happens when new technologies come out, or MS decides they need so new market angle? We'll get even more versions. Like with Windows Media edition, and Windows 64. By the time they make their next new operating system Windows will have 101 flavors.