Windows Vista...coming in 7 freakin versions...

For that OpenGL fiasco, I would love to see ATI and nVidia get together (this is why it won't happen) and write a DX10 wrapper for OpenGL 2.0. Then driver updates won't just be performance boosts. They'll also be the latest response to DX10 "updates"
 
ir0nw0lf said:
Didn't see anyone here mention this yet, but in the tabular feature breakdown on Paul's Supersite, there is something listed as "Windows Activation Services," and is showing YES for the Home versions and NO for the business/ultimate versions. Any idea what this might be about?
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This is activation over the internet. The assumption is that most or all home users will have an internet connection. This allows MS to keep track of product numbers. If too many people are using the same number (i.e. a pirated or copied), they suspect piracy and shut that number down. For corporations it's different. Since standardization on your boxes is important (easy to replace, troubleshoot, etc), a standard image is created and then distributed/installed. This process is usually automated, saving time for the IT staff and downtime for the computers. Easier than having to upgrade each box separately. Plus some companies and government organizations have internal networks that have no internet connection. It would be a real PITA to have to call up MS and type in a 20 digit activation code for every single install.
 
BladeVenom said:
Actually won't there be 28 editions? Start with 7 main editions, then there will be 32 and 64 bit editions of those, so that's 14 versions. Then they'll also have to have their N, no media, versions of those. So we are looking at 28 flavors of Windows Vista, and that's just to start with.

What happens when new technologies come out, or MS decides they need so new market angle? We'll get even more versions. Like with Windows Media edition, and Windows 64. By the time they make their next new operating system Windows will have 101 flavors.
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(7 (versions) * 2 (32/64) * 2 (N versions) * 5 (OEM, Retail, VLA, EDU, NFR) )-1*5 (SE won't have N version)= 135 different boxed versions. :eek:

I'm sure there are a couple more factors I'm not including.
 
eddie the dane said:
I'd thought of that but how many games are primarily using OpenGL now (not just support it but really expand on it)? And microsoft certainly isn't going to make the needed overhaul of OpenGL any easier than they have to.
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I thought id games were primarily OGL?
 
BobSutan said:
I thought id games were primarily OGL?
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and that's, what, 3 titles (and any games using the engine)? EA games alone blows that out of the water by sheer title count. id tends to be the few that support Linux and even Mac and look how many of those platforms are used for gaming boxes (not including servers).
 
Here is some info on castle networking for those wondering:

Castle

What This Feature Does:
The "castle" feature allows users to have the networking functionality of the domain, including roaming the user's profile, machine trust and having a consistent user identity throughout the network. The main difference with Castle is that users do not have to setup a dedicated machine, such as a domain controller, to maintain the trust and identity relationship. It also makes it easy to share and access files on those computers. Each computer on the same subnet can discover and join an existing castle. Or, the user can create a Castle. To join an existing castle, you must know the login credentials of an administrator account already part of the castle. Only non-blank passwords can grant access. This helps ensure only authorized computers join the castle (use of strong passwords for administrator accounts is highly recommended). When a computer joins a castle, the accounts on that computer will be added to the list of accounts accessible from any computer in the castle. User specific data (e.g. their password, access rights, and preferences) will be replicated on each computer in the castle and kept in sync. In addition, the newly joined computer will inherit and respect all policies from the Castle.

Information Collected, Processed, or Transmitted:
To help standalone computers find the available castles on the subnet, the machines in the Castle send a broadcast a beacon containing the Castle's name. Be aware that if you share a subnet with other people (e.g. your neighbor when using a cable modem without a hardware router/firewall) they may be able to see the name of your castles. In this case only choose castle names you are comfortable sharing with others. When joining a castle, the credentials you enter will be sent using security technology (NTLM) to other computers in the castle.

Use of the Information:
Broadcasting the name of each castle makes it easy to discover what castles are available on the subnet. When joining a castle, the credentials help ensure only authorized computers join the castle.

Choice/Control:
The user must initiate joining a castle using the user interface provided. Whether the user's computer is able to join a castle depends on whether an administrator of a computer already part of the castle has provided the user with the appropriate credentials. When a castle is formed, a beacon containing the castle name will be broadcast. In this release there is no easy way to disable the beacon. A mechanism to disable the beacon will be added in a future release.

Important Information:
The Internet Connection Firewall (ICF) is enabled by default in this software. Therefore, if you create a Castle, it will send out the beacon, but because ICF is enabled, other computers running this software that have the firewall enabled won't see the beacon.
 
So am I understanding this correctly? If we buy the "Ultimate" edition, then we will never have to activate no matter how many times we upgrade hardware, reformat, etc.?
 
Judging from the article, the only version with the all the features that I want is the Ultimate edition. Unfortunately, I'd be paying for a ton of bloatware as well. As with many others, I'll be sure to keep XP Pro for as long as I can.

Oh, and remember that the 'Starter' edition won't be available in 64-bit, so there will 'only' be 13 different versions of Vista.
 
All I can say is that it's good that Vista Ultimate is still a year off. That should give the hard drive companies enough time to come out with HD's big enough to hold it. Any one taking bets on how big that puppy's gona weigh in at. MS needs to let there programers design there OS's, not the marketing trolls.
 
bob63 said:
All I can say is that it's good that Vista Ultimate is still a year off. That should give the hard drive companies enough time to come out with HD's big enough to hold it. Any one taking bets on how big that puppy's gona weigh in at. MS needs to let there programers design there OS's, not the marketing trolls.
Click to expand...


Well, hasn't MS OSes been growing by 4 times every release?


So if a standard XP Home install takes about 4.5 gigs.


4.5gigs x 4 = 18ish Gigs
 
you should learn to spell properly.

bob63 said:
All I can say is that it's good that Vista Ultimate is still a year off. That should give the hard drive companies enough time to come out with HD's big enough to hold it. Any one taking bets on how big that puppy's gona weigh in at. MS needs to let there programers design there OS's, not the marketing trolls.
Click to expand...
 
Why can't they just release one all inclusive version? Or at worst, one desktop version and one server version?
 
Phoenix86 said:
(7 (versions) * 2 (32/64) * 2 (N versions) * 5 (OEM, Retail, VLA, EDU, NFR) )-1*5 (SE won't have N version)= 135 different boxed versions. :eek:

I'm sure there are a couple more factors I'm not including.
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cool, think about the possibilities: you can spend 3 months having a different version of windows installed EVERY day!!! :)
 
This is going to be a nightmare for the average "home" user. If I read those descriptions correctly, a "Home Basic" edition does not include WiFi support. So this seems to imply that the networking side is crippled some how.

So what happens to the family who buy a new Vista PC "for the kids" and it comes with "Home Basic"? When they then try to buy a second PC, and use a bit of WiFi in the house, they are stuffed.

How am I going to explain to them why the new PC they have just bought needs a new OS to allow it to connect to the other machines in the house?

And I can see small businesses buying Home editions and trying to connect them into their Win XP "workgroup" networks.... oh what fun!!

I agree with those posts which suggest that these kinds of "extras" should be available as paid add-ons. A truely modular OS which allows us to plug parts in and/or rip them out would of made much more sense. Instead we are ending up with a marketing designed mess which will confuse the normal "man in the street" who is use to buying "black boxes" that just work.

If only they would provide a simple way to upgrade a machine from one version to the next without the need for a full reinstall of the OS!!
 
BlueMeanie said:
If only they would provide a simple way to upgrade a machine from one version to the next without the need for a full reinstall of the OS!!
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XP Home to Pro is very painless. I would imagine Vista upgrades will be the same way. The only pain will be to your wallet.
 
BlueMeanie said:
How am I going to explain to them why the new PC they have just bought needs a new OS to allow it to connect to the other machines in the house?
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Then recommend Home Premium from the get go, don't use Home basic unless it really fits the scenario. Read the bolded sections I posted on each on pg.1 Home basic is for "This version is aimed at general consumers, Windows 9x/XP Starter Edition upgraders, and price sensitive/first-time buyers."

I don't see price sensitive first time buyers having a home network, not that I agree with the difference, I definatly see your point.
 
As for first time buyers/users:

First time buyers/users just want to plug it in and go. Its not technology to them, its appliances. To a certain extent xp home and pro allow this, but not nearly as much as a mac. A router to them is like a vcr, hook all the wires up and the expectation is that it will work. The different versions of Vista are aimed at this type of experience is my guess, but as technology people its easy to point out all the ways ma & pa will fall on their asses when they try and do x. Only time will tell if Vista will be good or bad for the average users.
 
dx2 said:
As for first time buyers/users:

First time buyers/users just want to plug it in and go. Its not technology to them, its appliances. To a certain extent xp home and pro allow this, but not nearly as much as a mac. A router to them is like a vcr, hook all the wires up and the expectation is that it will work. The different versions of Vista are aimed at this type of experience is my guess, but as technology people its easy to point out all the ways ma & pa will fall on their asses when they try and do x. Only time will tell if Vista will be good or bad for the average users.
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This is a good example of a truely misinformed consumer. PCs are not, nor have they EVER been appliances and they would do better to stop thinking of them that way.

It's becoming more like a car lot with lots of models/options/colors.
 
Now i'm confused. Will there also be upgraded and full editions for some of the versions of Vista? Or is this version so new or not NTFS that they are only full upgrade versions? Anybody examine these artices enough to understand my question?
 
FalseGod said:
Here is some info on castle networking for those wondering:

Castle
Click to expand...

For those of you who play chess:

So Microshaft is creating a new networking scheme that is completely different from the ground up, only cheaper by the cost of a server and Windows Server 200X, and will require a completely new section of code added to samba in order to be compatible with linux.

How appropriate that they call it a Castle.

Anyone else catch the parallel there?
 
The big question is which one will be in the OEM machines that Dell, Gateway, Compaq, HP, etc sell. Only one Home version shall remain victorious!!1!
 
OldPueblo said:
The big question is which one will be in the OEM machines that Dell, Gateway, Compaq, HP, etc sell. Only one Home version shall remain victorious!!1!
Click to expand...
There can be only one!
 
Windows XP Home
Windows XP Professional
Windows XP Starter Edition
Windows XP Media Center Edition

Unfortunately, this looks like an extenstion of something they've already been doing with the Windows OS. My opinion of this is that if they are going to offer such a wide number of versions, then the price had better reflect the target consumer of each version, much more so than the current offerings do now (which aren't bad, but the pricing is not impressively different-- granted, this is because they are so damned similar in build).

I don't think this is a good idea overall, so I want to hear Microsoft quatify their reasons before stating outright that I'm against it. However, considering the fact that I'll see each of these versions due to a business subscription as a developer, I am not concerned for myself. Rather, I'm concerned at how I can quantify this to others in a realistic and practical fashion.
 
Phoenix86 said:
:vomit:
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vomits more.

man, Enterprise Edition? wtf? this isn't Star Trek Microsoft. Jesus, that is stupid to come out with those versions.let me guess though, ULTIMATE edition will cost $1,000 and a donation of an internal organ. and they will try so hard to make sure these can't be copied, it will actually give errors to regular users that pisses them off, such as you can't create a boot disk because an FBI sniper will take you out in your chair for copyright infiringment.

Microsoft, you suck, and what the hell? Vista? that sounds worse than gargling diahreah in someones mouth, crap its so bad, its actually making me mispell diahreah. It sounds like the old Ford Vistas.

I'm sticking to XP, only until I NEED Vista.
 
Unfortunately for all of us, Microshaft couldn't give two shits about the people who actually have to work with these operating systems. Its pretty damned scary to me to try to comprehend how out-of-touch with reality Microsoft has become. I mean, c'mon, it doesn't take a genius to figure out 20 different reasons why having umpteen different versions of their operating system might, just might, be a bit confusing for absolutely everybody.

Microsoft's too busy figuring out "cute" ways to do things, instead of intelligent, well-thought-out ways of doing things. I mean, how hard would it be for Mr. Gates to employ some people to read/post on message boards like this to get real feedback from people?

Jesus f*cking christ, I can't even imagine how hard my job is going to get (computer support/building/repair).
 
insanarchist said:
Unfortunately for all of us, Microshaft couldn't give two shits about the people who actually have to work with these operating systems...I can't even imagine how hard my job is going to get (computer support/building/repair).
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Being IT (currently) I can totally agree. This is gonna be horrible. I can't imagine convincing my superiors that 5 different, cheaper versions of windows will not work on our network with our current infrastructure without threatening suicide and taking 2 weeks off afterward.
 
TheBluePill said:
I want to see a price structure for the product line before I make any comments on this..
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Good point. If Home Basic is like $40 bucks then its hard to argue with that. I'm sure it won't be, but who knows.
 
insanarchist said:
Microsoft's too busy figuring out "cute" ways to do things, instead of intelligent, well-thought-out ways of doing things.
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In fact that is not their intent. They are trying to discriminate pricing in order to get the maximum profit out of everybody possible. If there was only a single version of Vista, there would only be a single price in the mass market. Some people would be willing to pay more for 'additional features' while other would rather have a trimmed down version. By creating lots of different versions, MS is hoping to extract the reserve price from most customers...

The bottom line is: It may be a smart business idea, however the implementation can backfire, if the final product is virtually impossible to support.
 
if you think this is bad, you should see what they've done with visual studio
talk about making it harder to create solutions
 
quit your whining. If it gets more difficult, you'll just have to be compensated more.

insanarchist said:
Jesus f*cking christ, I can't even imagine how hard my job is going to get (computer support/building/repair).
Click to expand...
 
oh well, my college is signed up to this program where I get microsoft products for free. Soon as vista comes out i'll get it for free as well :p.
 
i want the one without animated dogs, good security, and doesnt require an admin password to run my everyday apps.
 
To accomplish that you'll need to purchase Vista Enterprise and Vista Home Pro. Copy half of the files of one to a folder and then half of the files of the other to the same folder. Then burn that CD. Now when you bootup with your newly burned CD you'll be prompted to install Windows Vista semi-enterprise
 
Holy thread necromancy batman!

Not nearly as bad as the OP made it out to be, but I think most people know that by now.
 
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