Auzentech XMeridian is finally out!

[alg7_munif]

And how all the hardware support improve the sound quality in gaming? If all the hardware support really improve the sound quality twice as much as the X-Meridian in gaming then will a X-Fi with a set of cheap speaker give an equivalent sound quality as the X-Meridian connecting to a set of speaker with twice the quality of the cheap speaker? For some the realistic effect from the EAX is more important than the sound quality and for others the sound quality is more important, the X-Fi and X-Meridian are in two different worlds. You can't say one is better than the other. If you want both high sound quality and realistic effect then buy the Elite Pro.

Actually the 2nd rate Audigy ES is the last add on sound card I bought from Creative before the nForce Sound Storm came out. At that time the Audigy ES is comparable to the Xtreme Music now. The cards from Auzentech are replacements for my sound storm.

For me it is cheaper to sell my 7950GT and buy a used X1950XTX with 512MB GDDR4 when the 8800GTX comes out than buying a X-FI with 64MB XRam and I will get a much higher performance boost in games with a new graphic card.

 

[Dion]

Sorry but I (just me and not speaking for anyone else) couldn't see paying $189 for something can't do EAX 3 or higher or OpenAL.

Once you play a game with DDL you wouldnt say that I find EAX to be useless now.

 

[SLee]

Once you play a game with DDL you wouldnt say that I find EAX to be useless now.

Why, it'll just sound like a game with EAX2.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Once you play a game with DDL you wouldnt say that I find EAX to be useless now.

are you using earbuds that came with your 1990 walkman? Dolby Digital Live from the Auzentech cards does not give you accurate surround sound. It gives you immersion in sound. Go check out my comparison http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1116143

The X-fi just completely CRUSHES the Auzentech for games, most importantly FPS. If you use it for RTS, then you don't need accurate sound direction. If you play an FPS where you need to hear footsteps locations, then you will die alot with an Auzentech.

Everyone is saying DOLBY HEADPHONE!!! Well I've already experienced it and it doesnt stack up. I went and spent over 200bucks a few years ago to buy HC Technology DH-720G Dolby headphones. The decoder box provided had Dolby Headphone technology. ( here is a link for proof http://www.neoseeker.com/resourcelink.html?rid=83455 ) I used that for over a year with their headphones and decoder while first using Soundstorm(nforce2) and then the HDA Mystique 5.1. The immersion is horrible for games when you need to hear where the enemy is. I thought it was the headphones at first so I bought Audio technica A500's, but the accuracy was still off.

After I got my X-fi xtrememusic I was SOOOO PISSED that I did not get one sooner. My kill/death rate went up ALOT after switching cards(I play FEAR combat mostly). SMSS-3D game mode combined with EAX and the new HD setting(worked awesome without HD even) just blows my old card and stuff away. I tried the X-fi with my old HCT headphones as well as my A500's. The A500's are better, but just for clarity and bass(omg I luuuuv the bass).

Unless you can get down and dirty with all the options in your hands, don't say one is better than the other. I got down and dirty and spent too much money over the past few years and I don't want anyone else to do that. Spend your money right. If your building a music PC for no games, then go with the Auzentech. If you are an all round guy/gal, go with the X-fi.

If you don't believe me about me having all this gear, I will gladly take pictures of all of it(you can see the duct tape holding my HCT headphones together ).

 

[Donnie27]

And how all the hardware support improve the sound quality in gaming? If all the hardware support really improve the sound quality twice as much as the X-Meridian in gaming then will a X-Fi with a set of cheap speaker give an equivalent sound quality as the X-Meridian connecting to a set of speaker with twice the quality of the cheap speaker? For some the realistic effect from the EAX is more important than the sound quality and for others the sound quality is more important, the X-Fi and X-Meridian are in two different worlds. You can't say one is better than the other. If you want both high sound quality and realistic effect then buy the Elite Pro.

Actually the 2nd rate Audigy ES is the last add on sound card I bought from Creative before the nForce Sound Storm came out. At that time the Audigy ES is comparable to the Xtreme Music now. The cards from Auzentech are replacements for my sound storm.

For me it is cheaper to sell my 7950GT and buy a used X1950XTX with 512MB GDDR4 when the 8800GTX comes out than buying a X-FI with 64MB XRam and I will get a much higher performance boost in games with a new graphic card.

No, NONE of those Audigys are in the same class as the X-Fi=P When it comes to games, NONE of the CMedia Cards are in that class either. Hell for Games, I'd take an Audigy 2 ZS over any of them

How about improving the sound 4 times as much? We had these fights, arguments and disagreements already. X-Meridian might good at playing music back but it's Game support without OpenAL/EAX-3 and higher is a JOKE and is like Comparing Pro Logic to Discrete 5.1.

The sounds are not just good or better, they are more realistic and life like. These Creative cards that go back to at least the Audigy 2, make your localized sound believable. As I told others here, when you fire a gun, the sounds the shots sound like they're coming from you. Or the Environment and Conditions matches the sound, underwater sounds occluded, not Crystal Clear like on the X-Plosion and etc.. You can tell when someone is at the front left, around the corner (Obstructed) and moving towards you or away! Some America's Army players consider the cards a cheat or Hack! OpenAL is NOT hype. Echos just don't echo, they change with what they reflecting off of! These tricks are processed by the card in Hardware and in real time. If these were done in software by the Processor, you had latency for it to travel to the processor and back to the card.

SO yes, Dion, they maybe bright and clear but too bad the sound was supposed to be muffled with an echo from inside a Building. Get it? Now if you want DTS and get all of these sweet effects from Analog to Digital DTS with this. It provides the best of both worlds. It and the Sound card would still be about the same price as you X-Meri or whatever.

 

[Donnie27]

Why, it'll just sound like a game with EAX2.

I don't think he's ever experienced Battlefield 2 in Ultra Mode before. A bud of mine had creeped-out dreams after my FEAR Demo I did for him LOL!

I liked my MX-300 in the old days. I didn't give up my Santa Cruz until Audigy 2 launched and had an Aureal SQ-2500. I liked the SBLive but it was never my Top card. In fact, I still have a SQ-2500 that works.

 

[Dion]

If you play an FPS where you need to hear footsteps locations, then you will die alot with an Auzentech.

lol?

 

[vexeus]

I was under the impression that EAX had nothing to do with sound positioning...? It just adds reverb and echo and stuff right?

So why is the positioning on the X-Fi better than the X-Meridian?

 

[IndianScout]

after fighting with my X-Meridian all day, I'm back on the Audigy 4 again..

as stated previously, I'm not impressed with the X-Meridian in gaming or with Guitar Rig,,

 

[phide]

I was under the impression that EAX had nothing to do with sound positioning...? It just adds reverb and echo and stuff right?

Exactly right.

So why is the positioning on the X-Fi better than the X-Meridian?

It's not! DirectSound3D/OpenAL determine audio positioning and final mixing. Then, you're shooting this stuff through the Windows mixer, and that's the chain. A gunshot that peaks at -13dBFS in the right front channel on an X-Fi will, theoretically, peak at -13dBFS in the right front channel on an X-Meridian. Theoretically, the mixing is identical. The source is not changing.

Occlusion is something that will be present in the typical EAX game, and that may help in determining where someone is in the world, but it has nothing to do with where that sound ends up being reproduced.

 

[alg7_munif]

SO yes, Dion, they maybe bright and clear but too bad the sound was supposed to be muffled with an echo from inside a Building. Get it? Now if you want DTS and get all of these sweet effects from Analog to Digital DTS with this. It provides the best of both worlds. It and the Sound card would still be about the same price as you X-Meri or whatever.

You must be kidding right? Connect a X-Fi Xtreme Music to the DTS-610 box and I'll get a better sound quality? Did you know what I mean by high sound quality? It is not about sweet effects, it is about the details, clarity, and also how clean the sound is. DTS isn't supposed to give effects to the original sound, DTS is just a way to carry the original surround sound data from a source to a receiver through a single digital cable. The Xtreme music with the DTS-610 box can't give a similiar high sound quality as the Elite Pro.

What I'm trying to say before is the X-Meridian should give a better sound quality than the Xtreme Music but without the realistic effect. The Xtreme music gives a more realistic sound but with less quality. I'm more into racing games than FPS(I even bought the new Logitech G25) so for me the detailed sound of an engine is more important than where it comes from.

 

[vexeus]

What I'm trying to say before is the X-Meridian should give a better sound quality than the Xtreme Music but without the realistic effect. The Xtreme music gives a more realistic sound but with less quality. I'm more into racing games than FPS(I even bought the new Logitech G25) so for me the detailed sound of an engine is more important than where it comes from.

Aside: Holy crap that G25 is sweet.

I gotta agree here. Especially since you're converting a signal from D > A > D > A before it's finally output with that DTS-610 box. Too many DAC and ADC's gotta degrade the sound quality.

 

[Donnie27]

You must be kidding right? Connect a X-Fi Xtreme Music to the DTS-610 box and I'll get a better sound quality? Did you know what I mean by high sound quality? It is not about sweet effects, it is about the details, clarity, and also how clean the sound is. DTS isn't supposed to give effects to the original sound, DTS is just a way to carry the original surround sound data from a source to a receiver through a single digital cable. The Xtreme music with the DTS-610 box can't give a similiar high sound quality as the Elite Pro.

What I'm trying to say before is the X-Meridian should give a better sound quality than the Xtreme Music but without the realistic effect. The Xtreme music gives a more realistic sound but with less quality. I'm more into racing games than FPS(I even bought the new Logitech G25) so for me the detailed sound of an engine is more important than where it comes from.

Sorry, I don't use a 610, I just said if you want DTS. No, the 610 can't compete with an Elite Pro The 610 is for those who can't use the Analog outs. Meridian may in fact play back music better than the Xtreme Music but that has NOTHING to do with Games Sounds=P I use Analog out to a VSX-D711 with Custom Speakers on the Front, Sony Center and Bose 301's on the rear. I have Advents waiting for my upgrade to 7.1 for the sides.

The point you seem to be missing is that Games are NOT always about Crystal Clear sounds. It's the number of sounds and the number of effects performed on those sounds. VERY IMPORTANT. It's not only WAVE tracing but echos created by a Character, Environment and the Player. The CMedia can't reproduce these interactions correctly. In many cases, it can't do any of them at all because it doesn't support EAX-HD and OpenAL. Sure it sounds good, just not very realistic. There's a damned very good reason why nVidia joined Creative on this.

 

[Donnie27]

Exactly right.


It's not! DirectSound3D/OpenAL determine audio positioning and final mixing. Then, you're shooting this stuff through the Windows mixer, and that's the chain. A gunshot that peaks at -13dBFS in the right front channel on an X-Fi will, theoretically, peak at -13dBFS in the right front channel on an X-Meridian. Theoretically, the mixing is identical. The source is not changing.

Occlusion is something that will be present in the typical EAX game, and that may help in determining where someone is in the world, but it has nothing to do with where that sound ends up being reproduced.

That's Exactly wrong

http://www.softbasket.com/download/g_31.shtml

Description from publisher:

EAX ADVANCED HD Game Audio Library takes in-game audio acoustics to a whole new level. New Multi-Environment™ technology renders up to 4 simultaneous audio environments in real time. Environment Panning™ makes spatializing and localizing environments in 3D possible.

EAX ADVANCED HD offers dramatically increased 3D audio performance and functionality, delivering superior audio fidelity and rich environment effects for an unsurpassed digital entertainment experience.

That's EAX 3. EAX 4 added more and EAX 5 adds even more. EAX works with OpenAL and Direct3D. All of the Patches to games like these make this same statement. Even games like SOF-II.

http://www.soundblaster.com/Applications/article.asp?articleID=66955&categoryID=13

Q10. What role does 3d audio play in Battlefield 2142?

David: Huge. By using and learning to react on 3d sound cues you could gain a great gameplay advantage.


Q11. Have you played the game on a SoundBlaster X-fi through headphones, and if so did you find CMSS-3D useful for helping to locate enemies?

David: We have 5.1, stereo & headphone setups here. 5.1 and headphones are by far the most detailed.


Q12. How was OpenAL and EAX® ADVANCED HD™ used in Battlefield 2142 and how do they add to the experience?

David: Occlusion, especially inside the Titan the occlusion works really well. The air filtering is also very effective for creating the feeling of being put on the battlefield then you start the game. We actually did the final tweak of the air filter coefficients during final mixing and it really helped the mix come together.

Questions?

 

[Donnie27]

Aside: Holy crap that G25 is sweet.

I gotta agree here. Especially since you're converting a signal from D > A > D > A before it's finally output with that DTS-610 box. Too many DAC and ADC's gotta degrade the sound quality.

Maybe for Music but clearly NOT for games. With games, sometimes a dirty Sound is called for. Most (85%) of the time CMedia based cards can only play a Clean sounds.

 

[MC FLMJIG]

Personally i wasn't that impressed with the X-Fi.

Sound was mediocre and I even tried using that Crystallizer and it was eh. Not worth all that $ IMO.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

lol?

Learn 2 play online fps?

Thanks for proving that stuff Donnie. Too many people here have never tried the different hardware or they are just so Anti Creative that they don't bother to see if the stuff they are against is better than what they are currently using.

STOP hating and open your damn eyes!

So far everyone in this thread that has actually gotten their hands on an Auzentech card while also having a Creative has said that the Creative was better for gaming. TAKE A HINT.

OMG CREATIVE HAZ MONOPOLEEZ!! HATE THEM WE MUST!!

What you mean they are awesome for gaming sound and thats why they have a monopoly?

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Personally i wasn't that impressed with the X-Fi.

Sound was mediocre and I even tried using that Crystallizer and it was eh. Not worth all that $ IMO.

The Crystallizer is not supposed to change your audio completely, it's supposed to make subtle changes that you appreciate with good headphones. If your headphones are junk, then you can't notice it.

Do you know that the Crystallizer is just one of many functions the card provides?

And what are you comparing the Xfi to that you own which costs less or the same amount of money? The Auzentech cards are the same amount of money. Their high end costs almost 200bucks and their older cards cost about $100 or a little less. Is that not the same with Creative?

 

[vexeus]

Maybe for Music but clearly NOT for games. With games, sometimes a a dirty Sound is called for. Most (85%) of the time CMedia based cards can only play a Clean sounds.

So you are saying that the sound in games is not supposed to sound the way the sound file is recorded as? Seems funny they'd account for the fact that cards will crap up the sound. Unless, of course, they intend for EAX to do so.

I find that for a game like Oblivion, which I am currently playing, I'd benefit more from clean sound than dirty sound. Especially since it does not support EAX or OpenAL.

 

[vexeus]

That's Exactly wrong

http://www.softbasket.com/download/g_31.shtml

Description from publisher:

That's EAX 3. EAX 4 added more and EAX 5 adds even more. EAX works with OpenAL and Direct3D. All of the Patches to games like these make this same statement. Even games like SOF-II.

http://www.soundblaster.com/Applications/article.asp?articleID=66955&categoryID=13

Questions?

I'm pretty sure he is right on this. EAX does absolutely nothing for game sound positioning. Wikipedia says so, and Wikipedia is never wrong, except when it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_audio_extensions

"EAX has nothing to do with actual 3D audio positioning. Positioning is done by Microsoft's DirectSound3D API. An alternative to DirectSound3D, called Open Audio Library (OpenAL), surfaced in 2003 in several titles. OpenAL allows direct hardware acceleration of audio, like DirectSound, including EAX."

From the EAX website: http://www.soundblaster.com/eax/abouteax/

"EAX® is a collection of powerful, innovative audio technologies designed by Creative's world-class audio scientists to bring true interactive 3D audio to PC gaming. The sophisticated environment effects of EAX provide a greater sense of realism to the gaming experience, and enhance the overall enjoyment of the player. The additional audio cues provided by EAX can also give gamers a competitive advantage in multiplayer games, enabling the early detection of the enemy. It's therefore no surprise that EAX is well established as the premier choice for interactive 3D audio for games."

This claims to do nothing more than create audio effects.

 

[Donnie27]

Personally i wasn't that impressed with the X-Fi.

Sound was mediocre and I even tried using that Crystallizer and it was eh. Not worth all that $ IMO.

That's fine and everyone doesn't like FPS games or even trying to play them with Headphones. CMedia cards are great for non Game use. But to a Gamer, X-Fi and Audigy 2+ as well are worth every penny. X-Fi (Fatality-Pro, Xtreme Music and Xtreme Gamer) have a far greater value than that $189 card that mediocre would be a step up when it comes to Games.

If folks are building a killer Gaming Rig, this is one of the lower cost but very important part of that system for the optimal experience. The first time a bud saw me playing BF2, he was shocked when I told him I was on-line using Full Discrete Surround like that.

 

[Donnie27]

Learn 2 play online fps?

Thanks for proving that stuff Donnie. Too many people here have never tried the different hardware or they are just so Anti Creative that they don't bother to see if the stuff they are against is better than what they are currently using.

STOP hating and open your damn eyes!

So far everyone in this thread that has actually gotten their hands on an Auzentech card while also having a Creative has said that the Creative was better for gaming. TAKE A HINT.

OMG CREATIVE HAZ MONOPOLEEZ!! HATE THEM WE MUST!!

What you mean they are awesome for gaming sound and thats why they have a monopoly?

Hey, you're welcomed!

 

[phide]

That's Exactly wrong

No, it isn't. If you're going to intend to argue, at least provide sources that back up your arguments. The links you've provided and quotations you've made clearly back up what I have already stated, and do not back up what you've stated. In fact, the first link is a tiny snippet concerning a patch to Unreal Tournament, and in no way mentions anything concerning surround positioning, or in other words, surround mixing. This is handled directly by OpenAL and DirectSound3D. The EAX extensions have absolutely no control of this process.

EAX is, essentially, a DSP API that allows for interfacing via DirectSound3D and OpenAL. It does not control OpenAL, nor does it control DirectSound3D. It pulls audio data from the chain, performs very basic processing and slips it back in the Windows Mixer for audio output.

If you intend to argue further, I implore you to first check out the freely available OpenAL source code and the official OpenAL SDK.

In addition, the following quotes are direct from the EAX 2.0 Introduction to EAX technical document available here -- perhaps you'll find these a bit more suitable than a blip concerning an EAX patch for UT:

Both DirectSound and OpenAL keep the nitty gritty of audio hardware at arm’s
length from the programmer. The programmer uses the relatively simple API to
create sound sources, set their 3D positions and velocities (if moving), and take
care of other decisions about the quality and placement of sounds in the aural
world. DirectSound or OpenAL, through the audio driver installed in a computer,
does the work of translating sound-source waveforms, positions, velocity, and
more into a mix that ultimately comes out in realistic 3D form through the player’s
speakers or headphones.

Because EAX adds reverberation and reflection independently to DirectSound’s
3D effects, the sound sources retain their original 3D positional quality and have it
enhanced by EAX’s environmental audio effects.

Because EAX adds reverberation and reflection independently to OpenAL’s 3D
effects, the sound sources retain their original 3D positional quality and have it
enhanced by EAX’s environmental audio effects.

The nature of EAX's capabilities have changed little since EAX 2.0. Each new version essentially adds a small number of additional capabilities and adds one to the version number for marketing purposes. The real meat of EAX 5.0 Advanced HD is EAX 2.0 capability. The way EAX functions has remained the same since EAX 1.0.

Questions?

 

[phide]

OMG CREATIVE HAZ MONOPOLEEZ!! HATE THEM WE MUST!! What you (sic) mean (sic) they are awesome for gaming sound and thats (sic) why they have a monopoly?

So, you happily support their monopoly?

That's all well and good, but I'd just like to know where we stand.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Bottem line is that if you play games with a new Creative card and you use options like EAX, cmss-3d, EAX advanced HD, then you will have a better audio experience. It does not matter if a sound file is played exactly as it is recorded. What matters is whether or not that sound file is changed to make it sound as if it is coming from the floor above you, through the wall to your right, from outside, or from down the hallway. The ways that the sound are changed make your brain think about where they are coming from. If someone fires a gun next to you and it sounds exactly the same as if they fired a gun above you on the next floor, then you will be looking around thinking "WHERE IS HE!!".

When I played FEAR(best example I can think of) on my Mystique I had that "WHERE IS HE" problem ALLL the time. Things that were behind me sounded like they were in front of me and sounds that were in the next room sounded like they were in the same room I was in. How many times must I say these things? Go to Best Buy, bring some headphones and play a FPS game for 15 minutes on their display models and tell me that you can't hear a difference.

As for me supporting Creatives monopoly.... I bought a HDA Mystique. I used Soundstorm instead of my older SBL 5.1. Only recently after being pissed that I couldnt tell the difference between in front of me and in back of me or in my room or the next did I decide "The hell with this, I'l buy a Creative card. If it works I'l keep it, but if there is no difference I'm sending it back". I am not about to keep a 100 dollar sound card because it sounds a little better for games. I am keeping it because it sounds ALOT better for games. I support ANY company that gives me what I want. Right now Creative is the only sound card company that works with game Devs. Cmedia just makes the chips and lets third party companys make the cards. I don't see them working with game Devs.

You guys can go back and forth on what EAX does and does not do. I know one thing. You don't know jack sh** until you compare them directly.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

So, you happily support their monopoly?

That's all well and good, but I'd just like to know where we stand.

Oh and good job with all of the [sic]. Instead of putting up a good counter argument with facts about the topic, you check for spelling and grammatical errors. This shows that you have no real knowledge on the subject we are conversing about.

BTW: that sentence (the one you corrected) was being written as if it was being said by an ignorant fan boy. Just because the sentence was no longer in caps must have thrown you off. I guess I should have added some "!!!!oneoneonequestionmarkquestionmark" along with the "?" to make it more obvious for forum trolls like yourself.

 

[alg7_munif]

Aside: Holy crap that G25 is sweet.

Now I'm playing NFS Carbon with the G25. Carbon isn't the most realistic driving game(GTR2 is much better in term of handling) but in Carbon there is a surround audio option and with my XPlosion + Z-5400 the game sounds superb. I don't need to look back but I still know where exactly my opponent is, the doppler effect from the game is also awesome. What I like most is the sound of the engine is so detailed that I can take full advantage of my 6-speed shifter on the G25. I don't even need to look at the rev counter. The only thing missing is the g-force...

 

[Donnie27]

No, it isn't. If you're going to intend to argue, at least provide sources that back up your arguments. The links you've provided and quotations you've made clearly back up what I have already stated, and do not back up what you've stated. In fact, the first link is a tiny snippet concerning a patch to Unreal Tournament, and in no way mentions anything concerning surround positioning, or in other words, surround mixing. This is handled directly by OpenAL and DirectSound3D. The EAX extensions have absolutely no control of this process.

Simple EAX works with OpenAL and DirectSound 3D. Do I need to quote myself

EAX is, essentially, a DSP API that allows for interfacing via DirectSound3D and OpenAL. It does not control OpenAL, nor does it control DirectSound3D. It pulls audio data from the chain, performs very basic processing and slips it back in the Windows Mixer for audio output.

Link to where I said EAX controls either OpenAL or DS3D? I said "EAX 4 added more and EAX 5 adds even more. EAX works with OpenAL and Direct3D. All of the Patches to games like these make this same statement. Even games like SOF-II." This time I made it bold so you wouldn't miss it.

If you intend to argue further, I implore you to first check out the freely available OpenAL source code and the official OpenAL SDK.

128 Voices. Nothing overly magical here. The previous Audigy 2 supported 64 hardware voices (32 before them); X-Fi now supports 128 hardware voices.

None 64 processed by the processor that adds latency.

EAX Voice. This feature allows EAX effects to be applied to your voice in games which support voice input, appropriate to the environment in which your virtual self is currently located. Obviously this works best where everyone has a supported soundcard.

Works perfectly with Games that support it and OpenAL. While using it in Battlefield 2, go inside and you Player's voice changes, yes, it works. Even the Other players on your team hear you voice change.

EAX PurePath. This feature enables developers to specify precisely how they want specific audio sources to be reproduced, e.g. certain sources may be routed specifically to the LFE channel.

Speaks for itself!

Environment FlexiFX. This function provides developers with a more flexible effects engine; removing the mandatory Reverb and Chorus use, which provides developers with complete control over which effects to use. Creative states this makes EAX ExtendedFX, Environment Reverb and EAX Multi-Environment redundant.

You don't hear echos underwater LOL! They're also NOT crystal clear like the CMedia cards.

EAX MacroFX. MacroFX provides improved near-field effects (those less than a meter from the virtual user). This provides improved audio realism when it comes to positioning extremely close audio sources. In fairness this is actually Sensaura’s (which Creative acquired over a year and a half ago), and isn’t all that new.

Yes and "Wave Tracing" is Aureal's that Creative also uses.

Environment Occlusion. This effect enables both an audio source and the associated environmental effect to be occluded when passing through objects. This should provide more realistic audio effects.

Yes Virginia, it does work and works well.

Pros
High quality resampling
Excellent sound quality
Unbeatable 3D Audio gaming
Low CPU utilization
Comprehensive Dolby/DTS decoder

Cons
High Price (Before latest price cuts of course and this is a Fatality reveiw)
Certain features reliant on application support

1 of 2

 

[MixBar]

No, it isn't. If?

The X-Fi and the X-Meridian don't use the DS3D generic software rendering path. Both solutions use their own ways for rendering.

The X-Meridian use the C-Media software for rendering. X-Fi use the CL hardware EMU20k1 implementation for rendering. This are diffrend ways with different results.

The X-Fi used the EMU20k1 for mixing, high quality resampling and 3d spatialization filters. Up to 48 FIR filters for 1 source. This is a unbelievable number.

The X-Meridia used a CMedia CPU times optimized software renderer on driver level, for mixing, 3d spatialization, resampling (and EAX 2 effects).
The x-fi is already in pure DS3D much better than the X-Meridian, in the performance and the prozessing result. Anyway in OpenAL.

 

[Donnie27]

2 0f 2

In addition, the following quotes are direct from the EAX 2.0 Introduction to EAX technical document available here -- perhaps you'll find these a bit more suitable than a blip concerning an EAX patch for UT:

Again, you're still stuck on old tech. The X-Fi Chips have 50 million trannies and run at 400MHz compared to Audigy 2/ZS's 5 million and 200MHz. They are Hardware sound processors, not merely conduets for Processors based Audio Codes like the Cmedia based cards.

The nature of EAX's capabilities have changed little since EAX 2.0. Each new version essentially adds a small number of additional capabilities and adds one to the version number for marketing purposes. The real meat of EAX 5.0 Advanced HD is EAX 2.0 capability. The way EAX functions has remained the same since EAX 1.0.

Questions?

Absolutely WRONG! The so called meat of 5 is 5 LOL! Even 3 was a big step up from one reverb added to DS3D and no OpenAL worth talking about.

You're trying to talk up a Processor based sound card with nice DACs and little else? No wonder you think Audigy SE and etc..... is worth something, WOW! EAX 2.0 based cards can't support 128bit anything, sheesh! Now if you're trying to make EAX 2.0 seem as good or not much different than EAX5 or even EAX3, because your favorite supports it, you really are lost! I don't mean that as some kind of lame flame either.

The difference between just EAX 2 and 3 would make my post double the already too large size. EAX 2.0 is not EAX 3-HD. Where 3 supports 4 effects at one time, 2.0 only supports 1. Those effects aren't just marketing LOL, they work. Comparing X-Fi to a that CMedia card is like comparing a VIA C-6 to a Kentsfield XQ6700 LOL! EAX 4 and 5 throws in the rest of Sensura and Aureal's tech. Changed little, you kidding me now?

http://us.creative.com/corporate/pressroom/releases/welcome.asp?pid=6229

Game Developers Conference - San Jose, Calif. - March 16, 1999 - Creative Labs, Inc. (NASDAQ: CREAF) the world's leading provider of multimedia products for the PC, today introduced EAX 3.0, a new version of its popular Environmental Audio Extensions (EAX) application programming interface (API) for developers.

Phase 1: Providing a Sense of Environment with EAX 1.0
EAX builds on DirectSound 3D's positional audio capabilities with property set extensions. EAX 1.0 was designed to provide developers with the ability to create a convincing sense of environment in entertainment titles and a realistic sense of distance between the player and audio events.

Phase 2: Building on the Environment with EAX 2.0
EAX 2.0 builds on the ability of EAX 1.0 to create a more compelling and realistic environment with tools that allow simulating the audio effect of partitions between environments and obstacles within environments.

Phase 3: Adding More Realism, More Flexibility with EAX 3.0 Features
EAX 3.0 builds on EAX 2.0 with powerful, .........................The new tools include the ability to use and tune localized reflection clusters or isolated individual reflections, to continuously "morph" between environments, and to further improve distance rendering and naturalness with Creative's proprietary statistical reverberation model.

http://www.warp2search.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=11161

EAX 4.0 introduces the spatialization of multiple reverberant environments along with an extensible library of audio effects algorithms. The Multi-Environment(TM) feature of the EAX 4.0 API allows for the rendering of multiple, simultaneous audio environments and effects in real time. Developers can now create tremendously rich and highly defined audio landscapes, by placing different 3D environments around the listener. The EAX 4.0 API also offers a host of new effects algorithms, allowing developers to incorporate studio effects such as chorus, flanger, frequency shifter, echo and many more, within a mixing framework analogous to traditional studio production systems.

Or you can just go here.

http://www.soundblaster.com/eax/abouteax/eax5ahd/

Phase 5

• 128 Voices - More Audio Detail Than Ever Before!
• EAX® Voice - Get Inside The Game!
• EAX® PurePath™ - Truly Cinematic Gaming Audio
• Environment FlexiFX™ - Xtreme Gaming Audio!
• EAX® MacroFX™ - Getting You Closer To Your Gaming Audio!
• Environment Occlusion™ - OK, The Bad Guys Are Outside!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, any more questions?

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Question: how many Creative haters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Answer:None, all the Creative haters are light bulb haters too. The Creative haters stick with candles and oil lamps. They don't want to do business with the "light bulb" because it has a monopoly over the lighting business. They say the light bulb isn't as good as flame for light because the flame is hotter than the filament in the bulb.

 

[alg7_munif]

Wow I didn't realise that the X-Fi with EAX5 HD, CMSS 3D, Crytaliser, and X-Ram(did I miss anything else?) can do so much difference in games. I'm really depressed right now, I've thrown away so much money for an useless Auzentech card although I can get much more alphabets at a lower price with the X-Fi Xtreme music. Creative Labs is the best. No company can produce a better sound card than them. Now I know why I never win a FPS match before, I don't have the X-Fi. Creative Labs managed to develop all gaming technologies on their own, they are so great that they don't need to rely on other big companies such as Dolby to make their sound cards the best. Too bad that now I'm broke so I can't buy another sound card from Creative, I'm so broke that I'll have to wait until Creative release their new sound card with at least EAX version 10. Hopefully then they will add some of their own features that can deliver at least 6 audio channel through the digital connection.

Edit: Actually I really hate the light bulb, it's so warm, and the light is so dim. The filamen is not efficient, the energy is converted more into heat than light. I have replaced all the light bulb in my house with the "energy saving tubes". It consumes less energy and it is much more brighter.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Wow I didn't realise that the X-Fi with EAX5 HD, CMSS 3D, Crytaliser, and X-Ram(did I miss anything else?) can do so much difference in games. I'm really depressed right now, I've thrown away so much money for an useless Auzentech card although I can get much more alphabets at a lower price with the X-Fi Xtreme music. Creative Labs is the best. No company can produce a better sound card than them. Now I know why I never win a FPS match before, I don't have the X-Fi. Creative Labs managed to develop all gaming technologies on their own, they are so great that they don't need to rely on other big companies such as Dolby to make their sound cards the best. Too bad that now I'm broke so I can't buy another sound card from Creative, I'm so broke that I'll have to wait until Creative release their new sound card with at least EAX version 10. Hopefully then they will add some of their own features that can deliver at least 6 audio channel through the digital connection.

Edit: Actually I really hate the light bulb, it's so warm, and the light is so dim. The filamen is not efficient, the energy is converted more into heat than light. I have replaced all the light bulb in my house with the "energy saving tubes". It consumes less energy and it is much more brighter.

Your making fun of abbreviations which represent things that are brought to the table with a Creative card. Abbreviations are made so you don't have to repeat long names while talking about something. Before you posts suggested you had half a brain. This new post shows your ignorance.

Yeah, its real bad for a sound card company to work on advancements in sound....

We never said Creatives card was a better sound card. We also never said that the Auzentech was useless. Go back to school and learn how to read. We said that the Creative is better for GAMING(particularly FPS) and that the Auzentech is great for music or special needs like DDL/DTS encoding.

 

[vexeus]

We never said Creatives card was a better sound card. We also never said that the Auzentech was useless. Go back to school and learn how to read. We said that the Creative is better for GAMING(particularly FPS) and that the Auzentech is great for music or special needs like DDL/DTS encoding.

Go back to school and learn how to spell? Every post you type makes you look more uneducated.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Go back to school and learn how to spell? Every post you type makes you look more uneducated.

It looks like you have to go back to school and learn how to read too. I did not say "Go back to school and learn how to spell", I said "Go back to school and learn how to read."

There are no errors in my posts. If there was a spelling error, I would have seen it as I typed up my post. A nice little red line appears underneath any word that is spelled incorrectly. As for grammar errors, I think you should try rereading what I wrote.

The posts that I made should be taken as if I am speaking directly to someone(which I am). In that case, there are no grammatical errors.

I will use my last post as an example for you.

"Your making fun of abbreviations which represent things that are brought to the table with a Creative card." In this sentence I am telling alg7_munif that he is making fun of abbreviations which represent the functions that come with the Creative sound card. If you are confused by the "brought to the table", then do a google search of it to get some more examples of when it is used.

"Yeah, its real bad for a sound card company to work on advancements in sound.... " This is a statement made in sarcasm. I am making fun of how he made it seem that developing new advancements in game sound is worthless.

"We never said Creatives card was a better sound card. We also never said that the Auzentech was useless. Go back to school and learn how to read. We said that the Creative is better for GAMING(particularly FPS) and that the Auzentech is great for music or special needs like DDL/DTS encoding." I don't see anything wrong with these sentences.

Yet again I have to reply to someone who would rather focus on something OTHER than the actual topic. I love how me and Donnie are the only ones bringing facts and experience(my trials with different sound cards) and we are the ones who are being attacked.

 

[alg7_munif]

If you read all my posts then you know that I'm not a Creative hater. I just hate when a Creative fanb is hijacking my thread with all of the EAX thing. I've said before that the EAX really makes the sound more realistic but both the X-Meridian and the X-Fi are in two different worlds. I've read all the specs and feautures of both the X-Meridian and X-Fi before I ordered the X-Meridian. For me the X-Meridian suits me better than the X-Fi.The fanb didn't read anything about the X-Meridian and keep telling that the X-Fi can do 128 voices and the X-Fi is a much better sound card without even knowing that the X-Meridian can also do 128 voices. He also didn't know that my Audigy ES is one of the first sound card that supports EAX3.0 HD. I bought that card when I'm still using Pentium II and I said that during that time the Audigy ES is comparable to the X-Fi Xtreme music now. The fanb also keeps telling that all the processing in the Auzentech's cards is done by the CPU, so what's wrong with that if you already have a good CPU such as Conroe?

I want to add that Auzentech's sound cards will also have a good sound positioning if the game already has a discreet surround sound. The sound positioning depends on the source actually. The Dolby Headphone technology actually can work in two ways, first it can simulate a discreet 5.1 sound on headphones so that you can also enjoy a good sound positioning with your headphones. The second way is it can work together with Dolby Prologic II to upmix a normal stereo sound to a 5.1 sound but the upmix usually didn't give a good sound positioning like a discreet 5.1 sound does.

I just want the readers of my thread know that there are non-Creative sound cards which are also good. They can take these cards into consideration when buying a new sound card and see which suit them better, not just saying that one is better than the other without knowing their specs and features.

 

[phide]

Yikes. Going to have to tackle these one at a time here.

Simple...

This post didn't mention anything about positioning. The debate is concerning positioning, not new EAX features. Positioning, in our context, is the distribution of audio content among a multichannel system. Two channels, five channels, seven channels, whatever that may be. This, as I've explained, is handled via DirectSound3D (which is technically now built into the original DirectSound libraries) or OpenAL. If you recall, the original question is what EAX does, and I believe I've accurately described what EAX does, and its roles as a processing system.

I'm not going to comment on the new features you've listed, but you'll see that many of them are very minor improvements (and one that most certainly should have been present in earlier versions of EAX, but seems to have been curiously absent). Creative seems to spend a great deal of time coming up with clever names for very common-sense improvements, though.

Again, you're still stuck on old tech. The X-Fi Chips have 50 million trannies and run at 400MHz compared to Audigy 2/ZS's 5 million and 200MHz. They are Hardware sound processors, not merely conduets for Processors based Audio Codes like the Cmedia based cards.

I wasn't debating the technology of the X-Fi. I was commenting on the advancements of EAX, which are, quite frankly, not impressive coming from the advancements of EAX 2.0 and the introduction of occlusion. Whether or not the X-Fi chip operates at 400MHz or 1.4GHz is irrelevant to our discussion. The rest of the points, as with your first post, don't concern audio positioning. Our opinions may differ concerning EAX, but that's not our current debate. I used the EAX technical document because A) I do not have access to later documents and B) the fundamentals of EAX have not changed radically throughout its lifetime. EAX 5.0 operates extremely similarly to EAX 2.0, but, naturally, adds a few more features. Globally, one can think of EAX 5.0 as an extension and refinement of EAX 2.0 capabilities. Also note that I never said that they haven't added features to EAX with each new release, I said each release added a small number of capabilities (and the obligatory version number increment). Small to you may be big to someone else, so this was purely an expression of opinion.

I also spent some time trying to track down technical documents to support my argument (there is no argument), and the EAX 2.0 document was all I could manage to find. I didn't wish to use Creative market-speak from the Creative site, as that doesn't tell us how EAX works, and that's just about all the available, unfortunately.

The X-Fi and the X-Meridian don't use the DS3D generic software rendering path. Both solutions use their own ways for rendering.

Neither determine positioning, as far as I'm aware. If you have something that says otherwise, I'd like to see it. If I was wrong about the role of DirectSound/OpenAL, I need to be corrected.

128 Voices. Nothing overly magical here. The previous Audigy 2 supported 64 hardware voices (32 before them); X-Fi now supports 128 hardware voices.

This really has nothing to do with EAX except for the fact that these additional voices can be moved through the EAX processing stage (in other words, EAX can act on 128 channels, but global functionality still remains more or less the same). 128 playback channels is a hardware feature, and I never debated the capability of the X-Fi hardware. I'm not going to touch on this other stuff, as this, again, isn't what we're debating.

Just because the sentence was no longer in caps must have thrown you off. I guess I should have added some "!!!!oneoneonequestionmarkquest ionmark" along with the "?" to make it more obvious for forum trolls like yourself.

I didn't differentiate between that and the grammar and punctuation you've used in your previous posts. They looked inescapably similar, thus my assumption that it was no longer from the perspective of the "!!!!!!". Just going by what I see here.

Question: how many Creative haters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Amusing, but I believe you dodged my question. You're free to not answer it, of course, though I'd be very interested in your answer, assuming it is an honest one.

Again, I'd just like for a couple of you to step back and re-examine the events that led to this point. This debate seems to have stemmed from me telling someone that EAX does not handle positioning, which is absolutely true, as this is a concept that has been reaffirmed by Creative technical documents which I've quoted previously. I'm not certain why it seems to have gone astray, though I'm certain I've fueled the fire somewhat.

Hoping you'll clarify your comments a bit further, MixBar.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

I believe you dodged my question. You're free to not answer it, of course, though I'd be very interested in your answer, assuming it is an honest one.

I did respond to your question, just not in the same post as the lightbulb joke. Heres a quote from the post:

As for me supporting Creatives monopoly.... I bought a HDA Mystique. I used Soundstorm instead of my older SBL 5.1. Only recently after being pissed that I couldnt tell the difference between in front of me and in back of me or in my room or the next did I decide "The hell with this, I'l buy a Creative card. If it works I'l keep it, but if there is no difference I'm sending it back". I am not about to keep a 100 dollar sound card because it sounds a little better for games. I am keeping it because it sounds ALOT better for games. I support ANY company that gives me what I want. Right now Creative is the only sound card company that works with game Devs. Cmedia just makes the chips and lets third party companys make the cards. I don't see them working with game Devs.

Thats my stance on the monopoly which Creative has currently. Currently Cmedia is not working on new tech for gaming. The newest virtual surround sound on their card is using Dolby Headphone technology. They are using Dolby tech instead of creating their own. My experience with Dolby Headphone was not good. I would really love to see Cmedia come out with something comparable to what Creative does for games. Nothing is better than competition. I LOVE how ATI and Nvidia go back and forth. It drives down prices and forces each other to concentrate on coming out with a video card that will blow the socks off the competition.

And this thread has gone off topic. I started posting in this thread because someone said that (Originally Posted by Dion)
"Once you play a game with DDL you wouldnt say that I find EAX to be useless now."
I went from using DDL(mystique) with a Dolby Surround headphone system to using Stereo headphones with an X-fi. I knew this guys statement was way off and I had to say something so people did not get the idea that DDL is a replacement for EAX.

 

[Donnie27]

Question: how many Creative haters does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Answer:None, all the Creative haters are light bulb haters too. The Creative haters stick with candles and oil lamps. They don't want to do business with the "light bulb" because it has a monopoly over the lighting business. They say the light bulb isn't as good as flame for light because the flame is hotter than the filament in the bulb.

HAhaha!

 

[Donnie27]

If you read all my posts then you know that I'm not a Creative hater. I just hate when a Creative fanb is hijacking my thread with all of the EAX thing. I've said before that the EAX really makes the sound more realistic but both the X-Meridian and the X-Fi are in two different worlds. I've read all the specs and feautures of both the X-Meridian and X-Fi before I ordered the X-Meridian. For me the X-Meridian suits me better than the X-Fi.The fanb didn't read anything about the X-Meridian and keep telling that the X-Fi can do 128 voices and the X-Fi is a much better sound card without even knowing that the X-Meridian can also do 128 voices. He also didn't know that my Audigy ES is one of the first sound card that supports EAX3.0 HD. I bought that card when I'm still using Pentium II and I said that during that time the Audigy ES is comparable to the X-Fi Xtreme music now. The fanb also keeps telling that all the processing in the Auzentech's cards is done by the CPU, so what's wrong with that if you already have a good CPU such as Conroe?

I want to add that Auzentech's sound cards will also have a good sound positioning if the game already has a discreet surround sound. The sound positioning depends on the source actually. The Dolby Headphone technology actually can work in two ways, first it can simulate a discreet 5.1 sound on headphones so that you can also enjoy a good sound positioning with your headphones. The second way is it can work together with Dolby Prologic II to upmix a normal stereo sound to a 5.1 sound but the upmix usually didn't give a good sound positioning like a discreet 5.1 sound does.

I just want the readers of my thread know that there are non-Creative sound cards which are also good. They can take these cards into consideration when buying a new sound card and see which suit them better, not just saying that one is better than the other without knowing their specs and features.

If you don't want Answers, don't ask questions. If Creative is not brought up, then there are no reasons to post ANY Creative info. Yet anti Creative can't just talk about all things NOT Creative without BS! Then when some one calls them on misinformation, FUD and just flat out BS, it will not be called a thread Hi-Jack. If the thread is about X-Meridian, X-Plosion or whatever the hell else, then make it that? No need to post misinformation as if you're a Bluegears salesman or something

There are plenty of good non Creative Cards out there, they just kind of suck for Games. With Vista Dropping support for DS3D, it will get ever sorry.

What Creative Bashers, Haters and etc.. should be doing is pushing their favorite Sound Card maker into Using Hardware MLP, Better processors and etc.., NOT trying to lie or mislead folks about some one else.