Auzentech XMeridian is finally out!

[Dion]

And this thread has gone off topic. I started posting in this thread because someone said that (Originally Posted by Dion)
"Once you play a game with DDL you wouldnt say that I find EAX to be useless now."
I went from using DDL(mystique) with a Dolby Surround headphone system to using Stereo headphones with an X-fi. I knew this guys statement was way off and I had to say something so people did not get the idea that DDL is a replacement for EAX.

I was just saying Sound on xplosion sounds really clear and clean. I mainly use Analog for games (online ones like CS:S which doesn't use EAX btw and sometimes BF2) But for single player i use DDL and my 5500d. I have the xfi music and imo ddl just sounds more clear and clean. (thats just my opinion.) I have both cards (like you) and i enjoy my xplosion alot more. its pretty clear your more of an Creative Fan Boy. Everyone has different experiences with sound cards. Im not saying Creative Sucks or anything. ive had there product for years. SBLive, Audigy2 ZS etc.

 

[Donnie27]

Yikes. Going to have to tackle these one at a time here.

This post didn't mention anything about positioning. ..........................................................................................................................................................................Hoping you'll clarify your comments a bit further, MixBar.

One of the links pointed you to how EAX 3.0 and better works with DS3D and OpenAL to make positioning, called "Wavetracing", more realistic. EAX adds effects like Obstruction, Occlusion, Elevation, Distance and can do all 4 at once. Then Creative added better enhancements like Morph-Transitions, Fanger and a lot of others. EAX 2 to EAX5 is like comparing Win95 to WinXP Pro 64bit version.

I've heard my buddies CMedia and Envy24 based cards, they'd not as good at Games. They don't suck or anything. No one has to put Creative down to want something not made by Creative. Just like not having to put down Intel to want AMD or etc......

How much Processing power does the X-Fi have on board? Let's take one feature.

EAX Voice. This feature allows EAX effects to be applied to your voice in games which support voice input, appropriate to the environment in which your virtual self is currently located. Obviously this works best where everyone has a supported sound card.

This is an EAX-5.0 feature. In Battlefield 2 it localizes your teammates voices. It Tracks them in relation to you and give cues to their environment. If the guy or lady is on the other side of the wall, it sounds like. If that person is behind a wall, to the left rear, up on a create, you can clearly hear it Not like you have with CMedia stuff where if you're lucky you hear them and Mic-Chatter comes from all directions.

I posted all 5 phases of the EAX's growth.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

I was just saying Sound on xplosion sounds really clear and clean. I mainly use Analog for games (online ones like CS:S which doesn't use EAX btw and sometimes BF2) But for single player i use DDL and my 5500d. I have the xfi music and imo ddl just sounds more clear and clean. (thats just my opinion.) I have both cards (like you) and i enjoy my xplosion alot more. its pretty clear your more of an Creative Fan Boy. Everyone has different experiences with sound cards. Im not saying Creative Sucks or anything. ive had there product for years. SBLive, Audigy2 ZS etc.

The clarity is better on the mystique I have(analog quality with new OPAMPs). I wrote about it in my mini comparison review thread. I plan on getting a switcher box so I don't have to go in the rear of my case to rotate between the two cards. I plan on using the Mystique for classical music and my Xfi for rock(since the bass is more pronounced). I'm not really a fan boy for Creative, I want to see competition. If I was a Creative !!!!!! I would have not spent 30 bucks on new OPAMPs(waited over an hour in a UPS place to get them) or kept my Mystique in my pc. I loved that Auzentech gave us the hardware encoding for DDL/DTS. Now that they have covered what Creative has not given us yet, they need to give us what Creative has already given us. But it seems that the aim of Auzentech is to give an audiophile card for music and movies. Hopefully this will change and we can see competition advance our sound experience in gaming.

to phide: the changes in sound based upon what materials the sound is going through combined with the left and right orientation gives you a very good idea where someone is. It has an overall affect that feels like 3d sound. I think thats what Don is trying to say. There are different filters that a sound will pass through if the sound is from a guy on the floor above you or if he is on the other side of a door etc.

 

[Donnie27]

I was just saying Sound on xplosion sounds really clear and clean. I mainly use Analog for games (online ones like CS:S which doesn't use EAX btw and sometimes BF2) But for single player i use DDL and my 5500d. I have the xfi music and imo ddl just sounds more clear and clean. (thats just my opinion.) I have both cards (like you) and i enjoy my xplosion alot more. its pretty clear your more of an Creative Fan Boy. Everyone has different experiences with sound cards. Im not saying Creative Sucks or anything. ive had there product for years. SBLive, Audigy2 ZS etc.

I've played Battlefied 2 on an X-Plosion in DDL on my Bud's system thats much nicer than mine. You asked me if I ever heard DDL and I'll answer yes. Dewd, louder doesn't mean better. My bud's Harmon Kardon kills my Dinky Pioneer Yet, he upgraded to a X-Fi Xtreme music after finally hearing mine. Also he's the reason I'm going HK 7.1 LOL!

 

[Donnie27]

The clarity is better on the mystique I have(analog quality with new OPAMPs). I wrote about it in my mini comparison review thread. I plan on getting a switcher box so I don't have to go in the rear of my case to rotate between the two cards. I plan on using the Mystique for classical music and my Xfi for rock(since the bass is more pronounced). I'm not really a fan boy for Creative, I want to see competition. If I was a Creative !!!!!! I would have not spent 30 bucks on new OPAMPs(waited over an hour in a UPS place to get them) or kept my Mystique in my pc. I loved that Auzentech gave us the hardware encoding for DDL/DTS. Now that they have covered what Creative has not given us yet, they need to give us what Creative has already given us. But it seems that the aim of Auzentech is to give an audiophile card for music and movies. Hopefully this will change and we can see competition advance our sound experience in gaming.

to phide: the changes in sound based upon what materials the sound is going through combined with the left and right orientation gives you a very good idea where someone is. It has an overall affect that feels like 3d sound. I think thats what Don is trying to say. There are different filters that a sound will pass through if the sound is from a guy on the floor above you or if he is on the other side of a door etc.

You got it! The Game World's sounds are just more realistic. 5.1 is Discrete and Not almost pro-logic like on the other cards. Or no matter where the action is taking place, the sounds are the same with maybe an Echo here or there.

I only said for serious Gamers and still like the other cards for Music Playback and even EMU for recording on a bud's system.

 

[phide]

Currently Cmedia is not working on new tech for gaming.

That's the main thing that bothers me. Not only does C-Media lack any interest in pushing the envelope of gaming audio (they haven't pushed it at all, in fact), but they're reluctant to make their own products competitive by releasing something that can perform hardware acceleration of OpenAL. That's pretty inexcusable.

EAX adds effects like Obstruction, Occlusion, Elevation, Distance and can do all 4 at once. Then Creative added better enhancements like Morph-Transitions, Fanger and a lot of others.

The improvements Creative has made are very real, but my main point was that these additional improvements have no impact on where audio exists in the stage, which is what I refer to when I speak of positioning. The basics of positioning, for our purposes, are panning and attenuation, and these are determined by DirectSound/OpenAL (which a game can manipulate in varying degrees). These are functions any card can do, as these calculations are performed in software.

The enhancements offered with EAX can be thought of as effects, bussed through a basic auxiliary sends system. A sound event occurs, so aux it through the DSP, send it through the signal path, then mix a percentage of the processed audio back into the original stream. EAX is catching a lot of data, fiddling with it, re-mixing (possibly), then out you go through the kernel mixer (unless there is some other path I'm not aware of). In this scenario, EAX is not determining where these audio events will be panned, though it may determine distance attenuation via a soft occlusion preset (this is how BF2/Adware 2142 functions when using EAX -- basic distance attenuation is bypassed in favor of EAX occlusion processing). In the majority of games, an internal software mixer is determining these values, and DirectSound is the interface between the source and output.

Now, I'm not fully certain that EAX can't manipulate this positioning (panning), but I'm not certain what the purpose of that would be, nor am I certain software processing can be bypassed in that way.

And, to end a very long collective of posts, I'm not downplaying EAX here. I just don't believe significant strides have been made since EAX 2.0 in terms of increasing immersion and increasing the idea that audio events occur in a discernible place in a virtual environment. It's all very nice on paper, and the fancy marketing is curious, but whether or not EAX 5.0 is light years ahead of EAX 2.0 is a fairly debatable issue. It seems to me that every addition is based upon the three basic principles of audio processing introduced with 2.0.

I think this is a question best answered by someone who has actually worked with later versions of EAX, and whose knowledge of it is far more extensive than my own. I'd certainly like to know more, but Creative insists that I be a developer before am able to wade past their very non-technical marketing phrases.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Right now Creative is having enough of a time with Vista. OpenAL is the only way our soundcards can get information from the game now.

As for the differences in EAX's, if EAX 2.0 was not that much different from EAX advanced HD 5.0, then I wouldnt have seen such a difference between my Mystique(analog) and my Xfi(analog) when using my headphones in games. I really noticed a difference, and I'm going to go back and double check that one I get my headphone jack switcher.

 

[IndianScout]

interesting article between EAX 2 and EAX 4,

http://www.tech-hounds.com/article10/ArticlesComplete.html



I still have my X-Meridian sitting here, after 3 complete reinstalls I cant make it work with Guitar Rig, which was my main reason for getting it..

We did some test using EAX 4 Advanced HD and found no difference in performance and sound output. This just proves that using a higher version of EAX doesn't automatically provide better performance or gaming experience.

 

[Donnie27]

That's the main thing that bothers me. Not only does C-Media lack any interest in pushing the envelope of gaming audio (they haven't pushed it at all, in fact), but they're reluctant to make their own products competitive by releasing something that can perform hardware acceleration of OpenAL. That's pretty inexcusable.


The improvements Creative has made are very real, but my main point was that these additional improvements have no impact on where audio exists in the stage, which is what I refer to when I speak of positioning. The basics of positioning, for our purposes, are panning and attenuation, and these are determined by DirectSound/OpenAL (which a game can manipulate in varying degrees). These are functions any card can do, as these calculations are performed in software.

The enhancements offered with EAX can be thought of as effects, bussed through a basic auxiliary sends system. A sound event occurs, so aux it through the DSP, send it through the signal path, then mix a percentage of the processed audio back into the original stream. EAX is catching a lot of data, fiddling with it, re-mixing (possibly), then out you go through the kernel mixer (unless there is some other path I'm not aware of). In this scenario, EAX is not determining where these audio events will be panned, though it may determine distance attenuation via a soft occlusion preset (this is how BF2/Adware 2142 functions when using EAX -- basic distance attenuation is bypassed in favor of EAX occlusion processing). In the majority of games, an internal software mixer is determining these values, and DirectSound is the interface between the source and output.

Now, I'm not fully certain that EAX can't manipulate this positioning (panning), but I'm not certain what the purpose of that would be, nor am I certain software processing can be bypassed in that way.

And, to end a very long collective of posts, I'm not downplaying EAX here. I just don't believe significant strides have been made since EAX 2.0 in terms of increasing immersion and increasing the idea that audio events occur in a discernible place in a virtual environment. It's all very nice on paper, and the fancy marketing is curious, but whether or not EAX 5.0 is light years ahead of EAX 2.0 is a fairly debatable issue. It seems to me that every addition is based upon the three basic principles of audio processing introduced with 2.0.

I think this is a question best answered by someone who has actually worked with later versions of EAX, and whose knowledge of it is far more extensive than my own. I'd certainly like to know more, but Creative insists that I be a developer before am able to wade past their very non-technical marketing phrases.

Creative Labs went from their own EAX 2.0, added Sensura's tech and then their own. That's the easiest way or me to say it. Creative's 10K series supports Wavetracing in Hardware, it's NOT done in software. The Effects filters and etc.. are done in real time by the sound card. The System's CPU can do it but it would cause Latency, so CMedia didn't bother. If the CMedia Chip added the muscle to do the heavy lifting, it would cost $450 if this AC97 with nice DACs costs what it does now.

It's NOT Creative fault if these CMedia and Envy (VIA) don't get off their ass and support OpenAL or anything else.

 

[Donnie27]

interesting article between EAX 2 and EAX 4,

http://www.tech-hounds.com/article10/ArticlesComplete.html



I still have my X-Meridian sitting here, after 3 complete reinstalls I cant make it work with Guitar Rig, which was my main reason for getting it..

No, it proves he's a Hack

 

[IndianScout]

well after many hours of messing around I think I got it..

it would seem the X-Meridian is not compatable with Guitar Rig..

Installed Cakewalk and it works like a dream..

trouble ticket submitted to Native Instruments..

thanks for the help..

Indian

 

[phide]

Creative's 10K series supports Wavetracing in Hardware, it's NOT done in software.

I never disagreed with this.

It's NOT Creative fault if these CMedia and Envy (VIA) don't get off their ass and support OpenAL or anything else.

Again, I never said this. I'm not certain why you believe that this is my opinion. It's purely a C-Media issue.

No, it proves he's a Hack

If your mentality is to instantly dismiss an objective evaluation, while relying quite heavily on direct-from-the-mouth market-speak to form your opinion, it's possible that you need to re-evaluate your position.

You got it! The Game World's sounds are just more realistic. 5.1 is Discrete and Not almost pro-logic like on the other cards.

I'm a bit perplexed. You're saying that instead of using mixing, and deriving discrete channel data from a surround mixing process, C-Media uses phase alignment tricks to derive surround information and embed it back into the stereo source?

I really fail to grasp what you're trying to say here, Don.

 

[Donnie27]

I never disagreed with this.

Cool!

Again, I never said this. I'm not certain why you believe that this is my opinion. It's purely a C-Media issue.

What you made it seem that way, sorry if that's not what you meant.

If your mentality is to instantly dismiss an objective evaluation, while relying quite heavily on direct-from-the-mouth market-speak to form your opinion, it's possible that you need to re-evaluate your position.

I'm not relying on Direct From the Marketing speak, you're just doing you damnest to dismiss real features like CMSS-3D for Headphones. 95% of folks say it's sweet. You seem to be taking the word of the 5% instead.

I can hear transitions from Inside to outside, that's not marketing speak LOL! I can hear thuds when the sound should be a thud and not be a crystal clear boom whatever or etc... Again, you have to hear Battlefield 2 in Ultra Mode to truly understand what YOU'RE missing.

My position is simply that 4 different CMedia based cards I heard with Buds are not in the same class as even the Audigy 2 /2 ZS when it comes to Games. It get's bee-yotch slapped when compared to the X-Fi for Games. Music and Movies, sound very nice on them though

I'm a bit perplexed. You're saying that instead of using mixing, and deriving discrete channel data from a surround mixing process, C-Media uses phase alignment tricks to derive surround information and embed it back into the stereo source?

I'm saying that in most cases CMedia ain't doing $hit when it comes to Discrete 5.1 for Games. Most of the time its just a Conduit=P

Games aren't like pre-rendered Compressed DVDs that are simply De-Compressed and sent on. The whole or all of the Game World's sounds has to be rendered on-the-fly to do REALISTIC DISCRETE 5.1. X-Fi Can and the rest CAN'T. You can't remix stereo into discrete 5.1. Discrete means that if you shut down one of the speakers, that portion of the 5.1 sound stage is lost.

I really fail to grasp what you're trying to say here, Don.

Right!

 

[vexeus]

I'm not relying on Direct From the Marketing speak, you're just doing you damnest to dismiss real features like CMSS-3D for Headphones. 95% of folks say it's sweet. You seem to be taking the word of the 5% instead.

Please site source of 95%.

 

[Donnie27]

Please site source of 95%.

19 out of 20 folks I know who tested it. I don't count folks throughout other forums I visit as well. In fact, Dion shocked me with his comments

 

[phide]

What you made it seem that way, sorry if that's not what you meant.

No sweat.

I'm not relying on Direct From the Marketing speak, you're just doing you damnest to dismiss real features like CMSS-3D for Headphones.

I haven't commented on CMSS-3D yet. My bitching has been mainly EAX-oriented so far.

Again, you have to hear Battlefield 2 in Ultra Mode to truly understand what YOU'RE missing.

If I had not shattered my Audigy 2 into thousands of pieces, I'd definitely give it a whirl.

I'm saying that in most cases CMedia ain't doing $hit when it comes to Discrete 5.1 for Games. Most of the time its just a Conduit

All sound cards and onboard sound chips process surround audio discretely, and in real time (though slight, imperceivable delays can, and do typically, occur on any sound card, the X-Fi included). This information is passed via six independent connections via stereo 1/8" mini connectors. These channels contain fully segmented, specific information, which makes them, well, discrete.

 

[alg7_munif]

Hey Donnie,

Have you read this thread yet? http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1119313

It is another sound card based on the C-Media Oxygen HD chip and the manufacturer claims it is a serious gaming sound card, maybe you should post about EAX there. It shouldn't be a gaming card if it is not a creative card and it has the same C-Media chip as the X-Meridian. Auzentech just claims that the X-Meridian is an audiophile sound card.

 

[TheBeelzebub]

Actually, the razer sound stuff is loads of junk. The headphones are abysmal. And seeing that you can only use proprietary abysmal headphones with that sound card, it does not matter if the sound card is any good.

 

[alg7_munif]

Good news! I just found a game that supports Dolby Digital sound and you are required to have a sound card with Dolby Digital Live to take advantage of the Dolby Digital sound feature. Maybe there are more games out there that support this feature. Actually Dolby Digital sound in games is not something new, other platforms such as consoles have already use this feature, so it is possible that in the future more multi platform games will support this feature. Check out the sound card requirement:

Minimum Requirements for Splinter Cell: Double Agent

 

[Dion]

Good news! I just found a game that supports Dolby Digital sound and you are required to have a sound card with Dolby Digital Live to take advantage of the Dolby Digital sound feature. Maybe there are more games out there that support this feature. Actually Dolby Digital sound in games is not something new, other platforms such as consoles have already use this feature, so it is possible that in the future more multi platform games will support this feature. Check out the sound card requirement:

Minimum Requirements for Splinter Cell: Double Agent

couldn't agree more. While EAX is a great analog solution i see Dolby Digital the future for gaming. Anyone ever notice when you watch a dvd the Sound gets quiet and you have to turn up the volume. ive always notice that with SC:CT and SCA.

 

[Moofasa~]

Good news! I just found a game that supports Dolby Digital sound and you are required to have a sound card with Dolby Digital Live to take advantage of the Dolby Digital sound feature. Maybe there are more games out there that support this feature. Actually Dolby Digital sound in games is not something new, other platforms such as consoles have already use this feature, so it is possible that in the future more multi platform games will support this feature. Check out the sound card requirement:

Minimum Requirements for Splinter Cell: Double Agent

A "Dolby Digital" game just means it has discrete 5.1 audio and paid Dolby some money for advertisement. You don't need DDL to take advantage of it's "special feature" (notice how it also says EAX recommended). UT2004 advertised the same exact thing, and that doesn't have a special "audio path" for DDL cards. DDL simply encodes 5.1 analog audio into Dolby Digital so it's not a feature a game can "support".

 

[Sycraft]

Dion: The reason for that is that DVD audio is mixed for theatre presentation. It actually has absolute volume level data encoded in it. It's a very wide mix, relatively speaking, and is designed to get loud. Most DVD players (and all computer DVD software I've seen) can be set to compress the dynamic range for presentation on lower grade gear, or for listening at night.

Also Dolby Digital Live is only useful for connecting a soundcard to a DD capable decoder. DDL is nothing more than a particular real-time DD codec. This would allow you to get surround sound via a single optical cable to your receiver. Useful if you've not got a multi-channel analogue input. DTS has a similar technology for DTS capable receivers called DTS Connect.

However if you do have a multi-channel analogue input, that's the way to go. The reason is that Dolby Digital is compressed. It's not bad compression, but it is lossy. A normal multi-channel DD stream will be between 384k and 640k for 5.1 channels, with 448k being the spec for theatrical material on DVD. I'm not sure what rate live uses but based on the X-Box 360 I'd guess it's 640k.

Either way the compression is audible and hence the interest in DTS decoders. DTS is also compressed, but less so than DD (768k is half rate DTS, most common on DVDs, 1.536mbps is full rate). Either way a multi-channel analogue connection will ensure that there's no compression done on the soundcard.

 

[Dion]

Sycraft: thx for clearing that up.

 

[Donnie27]

Hey Donnie,

Have you read this thread yet? http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1119313

It is another sound card based on the C-Media Oxygen HD chip and the manufacturer claims it is a serious gaming sound card, maybe you should post about EAX there. It shouldn't be a gaming card if it is not a creative card and it has the same C-Media chip as the X-Meridian. Auzentech just claims that the X-Meridian is an audiophile sound card.

I honestly know nothing about the card or the add-on processor it claims to have. But that's what it would need to process EAX but please note "a proprietary connection for optimized signal transmission". Isn't that why folks hate Creative and for $320? For that much money I'd take some $200 Sennheissers and a X-Fi any day.

There are plenty of Audiophiles enjoying the Elite Pro Have you seen its NEW price?

Elite Pro $279

 

[phide]

Dion: The reason for that is that DVD audio is mixed for theatre presentation. It actually has absolute volume level data encoded in it. It's a very wide mix, relatively speaking, and is designed to get loud.

What's very curious about some DVD mixes is that no individual channel ever hits 0dBFS. I noticed this for the first time while watching the Lord of the Rings being passed through Pro Tools, and found that dynamic range wasn't being well utilized.

I suppose this is just the nature of translation from SDDS (or another digital theater sound format) to consumer DTS/DD, but it's interesting nonetheless.

 

[Donnie27]

No sweat.


I haven't commented on CMSS-3D yet. My bitching has been mainly EAX-oriented so far.


If I had not shattered my Audigy 2 into thousands of pieces, I'd definitely give it a whirl.

You can only run Battlefield2 in Hardware Mode with an Audigy 2. Ultra Mode needs an X-Fl based card. Ultra mode moves the HW Voice Scale to 128 voices. Audigy 2 only supports 64 HW voices.

All sound cards and onboard sound chips process surround audio discretely, and in real time (though slight, imperceivable delays can, and do typically, occur on any sound card, the X-Fi included). This information is passed via six independent connections via stereo 1/8" mini connectors. These channels contain fully segmented, specific information, which makes them, well, discrete.

Actually it's what's processeded prior to that. The chips aren't truly processing anything. They're just reading data in a way. DTS or DDL is blocked on the Creative cards because they have a Hardware Processor. None DRM data can be sent and hacked, in other words, played back in 5.1 via Creative Coax Digital to any Receivers Coax in with ease. Give this file a shot? Creative Labs 5.1 Sound Blasters are capable of playing DTS audio when you have the correct DVD (DTS) playback software. I use the full version of Power DVD 6.

So what Creative cards can't do isn't always so obvious. A member here showed me this last year.

No, those CMedia cards don't always send discrete signals to each side or rear speakers. Many times those sounds are Matrix-ed, Approximations and etc... DVD's are preprocessed. Some games even have true 5.1 discrete "Cut Scenes". Even in those rare Cases when CM does 5.1, those sounds aren't very realistic. Sure they maybe louder (Dion). I mean come on, crystal clear gun shots from under water DS3D is absolutely NO match for OpenAL. I'm still waiting for Creative to launch some similar for HW OpenAL support. That would make me want one of their boards more.

 

[kent]

I don't quite understand the jacks on the back.

I'm only going to be using RCA Coaxial output, is that the clear plastic jack that ships on the card? I couldn't get a good angle of it to see because I saw the optical SPDIF jacks..

 

[Sycraft]

phide: DD and DTS are theatre formats, that was what they were developed for. DD is probably the sole most popular format these days. It's printed in between the sprocket holes on the film. DTS comes off of a separate CD, which is one of the reasons it's less popular. However both are developed for the theatre.

Barring anything irregular, you usually get the theatre mix on your DVD. No reason not to. The reason it doesn't hit 0dBFS is because normally you'd have your theatre sound system configured to hit in the realm 120dBSPL max. There was consideration that movies would want some serious range for serious impacts and thus DD was developed with this in mind. The stream will actually specify (or I suppose I should say can specify) the maximum SPL level of the mix and the dialogue level in relation to that. The compressors then base their curves off of that.

The objective of DD wasn't to try and create an audiophile codec, it was to create a good digital codec for theatres that gave mix engineers the ability to get a consistent presentation of their sound across all different kinds of theatres. DD is actually fairly low quality compression, when you get down to it. Partially it's because it doesn't have all that high a bit rate but it's also not all that efficient. 192k stereo DD sounds worse than 192k MP3, not to mention more advanced codecs.

 

[Dion]

No, those CMedia cards don't always send discrete signals to each side or rear speakers. Many times those sounds are Matrix-ed, Approximations and etc... DVD's are preprocessed. Some games even have true 5.1 discrete "Cut Scenes". Even in those rare Cases when CM does 5.1, those sounds aren't very realistic. Sure they maybe louder (Dion). I mean come on, crystal clear gun shots from under water DS3D is absolutely NO match for OpenAL. I'm still waiting for Creative to launch some similar for HW OpenAL support. That would make me want one of their boards more.

i never said louder is better. your just making up stuff. all i said was it sounded very clear/clean.

 

[SLee]

Good news! I just found a game that supports Dolby Digital sound and you are required to have a sound card with Dolby Digital Live to take advantage of the Dolby Digital sound feature.

How is this support? It just means if you want to use a Dolby decoder, you need a soundcard to compress it because the game doesn't itself output anything in Dolby.

 

[alg7_munif]

In multi platform games, the 5.1 discreet sound should already be optimized for dolby digital encoding because consoles didn't have EAX supports, so EAX might change the sound by making it over realistic and not so natural. Although Dolby Digital is a compression, the sound quality is more likely to be degraded when using analogue if low quality cables and components are used, sometimes inteference can also be heard.

 

[phide]

No, those CMedia cards don't always send discrete signals to each side or rear speakers. Many times those sounds are Matrix-ed, Approximations and etc...

I've never heard of this being so. Do you have any evidence of this?

The stream will actually specify (or I suppose I should say can specify) the maximum SPL level of the mix and the dialogue level in relation to that. The compressors then base their curves off of that.

Theater compressors? Well, I had no idea they were used in the theater environment. I imagine compressors are utilized to overcome variances in the noise floor?

Partially it's because it doesn't have all that high a bit rate but it's also not all that efficient.

All the more reason to apply some sort of normalization or make-up gain and re-encode before shipping the consumer (DVD) version, I'd think. You mentioned absolute volume levels before (something I'm not familiar with) -- do consumer players also act on this embedded data, and does this data reside in the header?

 

[SLee]

In multi platform games, the 5.1 discreet sound should already be optimized for dolby digital encoding because consoles didn't have EAX supports, so EAX might change the sound by making it over realistic and not so natural. Although Dolby Digital is a compression, the sound quality is more likely to be degraded when using analogue if low quality cables and components are used, sometimes inteference can also be heard.

I doubt it. I expect the X-Fi to yet again offer the best possible audio.

 

[Moofasa~]

In multi platform games, the 5.1 discreet sound should already be optimized for dolby digital encoding because consoles didn't have EAX supports, so EAX might change the sound by making it over realistic and not so natural. Although Dolby Digital is a compression, the sound quality is more likely to be degraded when using analogue if low quality cables and components are used, sometimes inteference can also be heard.

Almost every game known to man has discrete 5.1, just not "endorsed" by Dolby. This game is just as "optimized" for DDL as any other game (which we already know CMEDIA based cards are no where near to being optimized for gaming). There is nothing new here, it's the same old story with a new spin on it. Your card sucks for gaming, get over it (and yes I have had DDL so I know what I am talking about).

By the way, most of us don't use low quality cables (or any low quality equipment), therefore analog should always sound better then compressed audio (to most of us).

 

[alg7_munif]

I don't quite understand the jacks on the back.

I'm only going to be using RCA Coaxial output, is that the clear plastic jack that ships on the card? I couldn't get a good angle of it to see because I saw the optical SPDIF jacks..

Sorry I didn't notice your question. The X-Meridian has the RCA coxial output and optical output at the same place. If you are using optical you need to use the clear adaptor that is shipped together with the card. If you are using coaxial then you need to pull out the clear adaptor.

 

[vexeus]

Almost every game known to man has discrete 5.1, just not "endorsed" by Dolby. This game is just as "optimized" for DDL as any other game (which we already know CMEDIA based cards are no where near to being optimized for gaming). There is nothing new here, it's the same old story with a new spin on it. Your card sucks for gaming, get over it (and yes I have had DDL so I know what I am talking about).

By the way, most of us don't use low quality cables (or any low quality equipment), therefore analog should always sound better then compressed audio (to most of us).

I wouldn't say X-Meridian *sucks* for gaming. I think that's the card you're referring to at least. Throughout this entire thread, people seemed to be trying to prove that it's not as good for FPS games. I have failed to see any evidence why the X-Meridian would not be superior in Oblivion for example.

 

[Sycraft]

phide: I'm not sure how many consumer players pay attention to the absolute levels. In the header there can be two values, one is the dialogue normalization value, lets you know how far below peak the dialogue level is. The compressors use that. There also can be (it's optional) a field that gives the absolute value of the mix SPL.

 

[Moofasa~]

I wouldn't say X-Meridian *sucks* for gaming. I think that's the card you're referring to at least. Throughout this entire thread, people seemed to be trying to prove that it's not as good for FPS games. I have failed to see any evidence why the X-Meridian would not be superior in Oblivion for example.

Lack of hardware acceleration for DirectSound3D and OpenAL (never mind the weak EAX support).

 

[vexeus]

Lack of hardware acceleration for DirectSound3D and OpenAL (never mind the weak EAX support).

I don't think Oblivion supports EAX, so how does lack of hardware acceleration make it a bad card for Oblivion?

 

[Moofasa~]

The CPU calculates all the audio positioning, effects, and streams instead of the sound card. It obviously lowers your overall frame-rate.